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Thread: 90 5.0 Town Car uses the 5.0 HO firing order?

  1. #1

    Default 90 5.0 Town Car uses the 5.0 HO firing order?

    The car is a 1990 Towncar 5.0l. When I bought this car last saturday it had a serious lack of power and I figured the timing was off and it would be a simple fix.

    So I checked the timing and it was more than a few degrees off 10btdc. I fixed that and then checked the wires and a few of them differed from what the sticker on the fan shrowd listed. I fixed the order to what the shrowd listed which was 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8. This made it idle and run horrible. I got backfires and very low power. So I started looking around online and found the firing order for a H.O. 5.0 mustang motor ( 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 ) and gave it a try. It runs flawlessly now.

    What all has to be changed to use the HO firing order? I don't know if the motor is a full ho long block or just the cam or what. What can I check to see how much of this motor is a HO?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    I'm ridin on a dolphin, doing flips and shit cld783's Avatar
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    hmmm.. does it have orange top fuel injectors?
    Give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will promptly forget that he once did not know, and proceed to call anyone who asks, a n00b and flame them on the boards for being stupid.

  3. #3
    Cult of Personality p71towny's Avatar
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    The cam and injector wiring would have to have been changed. Kinda wierd unless someone did an HO swap in the past.
    Chris - A 20th Century Man \m/ ^.^ \m/

  4. #4

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    I'll have to check the injectors tomorrow. I'll let you know.

    I've got my suspisions that the motor may have been pulled before.

  5. #5
    Lets put cough drops in out buttholes and play video games DuceAnAHalf's Avatar
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    im pretty sure the 302 HO has the same firing order as teh 351. a 351 wont idle worth a damn with #3 and #4 unpluged, but you can unplug the entire drivers side and it will idle almost as smooth as normal.

    a 302 ho will run with a backwards firing order, but not very well.

  6. #6
    Full of Greenhouse Gas Tiggie's Avatar
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    351 + 5.0 HO are the same firing order.

    The cam and injector wiring would need to be messed around with. Check the computer too. The stock computer isn't really going to like an HO firing order, even if you swap the injector harness correctly.

  7. #7
    not embarrassed on a scooter 85crownHPP's Avatar
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    I thought no wiring had to be changed for the injectors??? Mike is adamant about this...

  8. #8
    I'm ridin on a dolphin, doing flips and shit cld783's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 85crownHPP View Post
    I thought no wiring had to be changed for the injectors??? Mike is adamant about this...
    as long as your using the correct eec you dont.
    Give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will promptly forget that he once did not know, and proceed to call anyone who asks, a n00b and flame them on the boards for being stupid.

  9. #9
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    If you use an HO cam and an HO computer, no wiring gets changed.

    If you're using some mix and match shit with a non-HO cam and an HO computer, or an HO computer and a non-HO cam then you get into modding the wiring, and it probably still won't run completely right. The proper way to do this is to match the computer to the firing order so fuel trim and stuff works as it should.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    Drivetrain: 5.0 HO, Explorer cam, FMS 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley, SuperCoupe stall converter

    Suspension: Bridgestone Protenza G019 225/60/16 on LSC turbines, 1 3/16" wagon front bar, 1" PI rear bar, cargo coils, KYB GR-2 front shocks, F150 rear air shocks, big front brakes, ES poly front suspension bushings, 00 CVPI steering box, ES poly body mounts, rear disc brakes

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks.

  10. #10

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    Sorry for the late update, just been swamped with other stuff. Anyway, it does not have orange top fuel injectors. They are entirely greyish. The wiring does not apear to have been messed with, ie cut and respliced at all. Where is the ecm on these cars? Can I identify it with the part number?
    1990 Lincoln Town Car 5.0 H.O.

  11. #11
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    ECM lives next to the brake booster, behind the cruise servo. If you pull the cruise servo you can access the bolt easily. The ECM comes out from inside the car, its forward of the e-brake pedal. There is a catch code on the ECM, usually a 3 digit code.

    list of program codes here: http://fordfuelinjection.com/?p=17

    Does it appear that the engine may have been swapped? Any signs of things being apart? The brackets at least would have been swapped if the motor is out of some HO powered vehicle. No HO car came with the same engine accessories as a Towncar uses.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    Drivetrain: 5.0 HO, Explorer cam, FMS 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley, SuperCoupe stall converter

    Suspension: Bridgestone Protenza G019 225/60/16 on LSC turbines, 1 3/16" wagon front bar, 1" PI rear bar, cargo coils, KYB GR-2 front shocks, F150 rear air shocks, big front brakes, ES poly front suspension bushings, 00 CVPI steering box, ES poly body mounts, rear disc brakes

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks.

  12. #12

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    There are lots of little things that lead me to belive the motor has been out before.

    There are more than a few areas where the wiring harness is just hanging instead of using factory ties to hold it to the firewall or wherever.

    The harness in some areas is routed weird, like where the tps pigtails meet the main harness. It goes up over the throttle body and down to where the main harness at the fuel rail is. I don't think it was like that stock since it barely reaches.

    The fan shroud is broken like the motor was pulled up against it. That could have happened without removing the engine but I think it may have happened durring removal or install.

    And I tried the lopo firing order again to see if I did something wrong and it ran like it was on 4 cylinders.
    1990 Lincoln Town Car 5.0 H.O.

  13. #13
    I'm ridin on a dolphin, doing flips and shit cld783's Avatar
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    even if it had a 351 camshaft making it possible for you to run the 351 firing order it shouldnt be running all that great. especially if you have the stock computer
    Last edited by cld783; 03-15-2009 at 08:11 PM.
    Give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will promptly forget that he once did not know, and proceed to call anyone who asks, a n00b and flame them on the boards for being stupid.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by cld783 View Post
    even if it had a 351 camshaft making it possible for you to run the 351 firing order it shouldnt be running all that great. especially if you have the stock computer
    I'm just trying to get to the bottom of what's going on with my car. If it is a ho conversion, or just a cam, I want to know what was done and if it was done right.

    So far it wasn't done right. I would think if someone went through the trouble of doing anything with it they would have been able to get the timing and firing order right.

    Another thing I've noticed. It takes a few cranks to start. Whether it sat all night or I just drove it all over town it cranks for about 5 seconds before it starts. It was like this with the old firing order, the order on the shroud, and the ho firing order.
    1990 Lincoln Town Car 5.0 H.O.

  15. #15
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    well, if you've got a non-HO ECM and non-HO injectors living on an HO engine, its not gonna be right. Just out of curiosity, what valve covers do you have? If they're black steel things, it doesn't tell me anything but if they're a cast aluminum cover, then its another hint of possibly being an HO. Also, see what spark plugs are in the motor, and see if you can get a good look where the plug threads in. On an HO engine, the plug threads will be just to the edge of the head casting. On the non-HO engine, the threads are recessed. They take different spark plugs too.

    If someone did stuff an HO motor in there but without using the right ECM and injectors, its fairly easy to fix. I'm suspecting thats what happened but its hard to say for 100% sure. Worst case, if you're up for a bit of experimenting you could swap the ecm and injectors to the HO stuff and see what happens.

    Also, where are you located ?

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    Drivetrain: 5.0 HO, Explorer cam, FMS 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley, SuperCoupe stall converter

    Suspension: Bridgestone Protenza G019 225/60/16 on LSC turbines, 1 3/16" wagon front bar, 1" PI rear bar, cargo coils, KYB GR-2 front shocks, F150 rear air shocks, big front brakes, ES poly front suspension bushings, 00 CVPI steering box, ES poly body mounts, rear disc brakes

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks.

  16. #16

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    The valve covers are stamped steel. I'll have to check the plugs tomorrow after work.

    I'm in clinton township Michigan.
    1990 Lincoln Town Car 5.0 H.O.

  17. #17

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    I pulled a plug and looked today. I wasn't sure about what you meant about the threads going to the edge of the casing. Did you mean there would either be a hole with threads to the very edge of the hole which means ho or the threads would fall short of the edge of the hole and there would be a smooth area which would indicate a lopo head?

    Either way I took a picture or two.

    Head on shot.


    Slightly angled.


    Almost all of the plugs were a bit lose for some reason. I tightened them all back up and now it will pretty easily spin one tire from a stop. When I go to replace the plugs I'm going to have to find a how to on it since the entire passenger side is a pain in the ass. My hands are all scratched and cut up.
    1990 Lincoln Town Car 5.0 H.O.

  18. #18
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    I could be wrong, but that does not look like the E6 lopo head to me. Here are pics of what I mean:

    E6 head


    E7 head, which is used on the HO motor. Pretty much every other small spark plug Ford Windsor head looks like this:




    I'm gonna suggest swapping the fuel injectors to 19# units, and swapping the ECM to a Mark VII unit. If you do have an HO motor in there, doing that should make it run properly.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    Drivetrain: 5.0 HO, Explorer cam, FMS 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley, SuperCoupe stall converter

    Suspension: Bridgestone Protenza G019 225/60/16 on LSC turbines, 1 3/16" wagon front bar, 1" PI rear bar, cargo coils, KYB GR-2 front shocks, F150 rear air shocks, big front brakes, ES poly front suspension bushings, 00 CVPI steering box, ES poly body mounts, rear disc brakes

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks.

  19. #19

  20. #20

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    Ok, so I probably have HO heads then. And it uses the HO firing order. So I guess we can safely say the motor has some kind of HO or aftermarket cam. Do the HO's use a different bottom end than the lopos? Do the compression ratio's differ between the two? What if the previous owner did a head and cam swap on a lopo motor? The motor idles and runs fine with the grey injectors but probably wants the orange ones. Would it be safe to say that it's already using some sort of different computer since it does run fairly well? I'll dig into it this saturday, don't have time because of finals, and check the numbers on the ecm.

    You have been a huge help gadget73. Thank you very much for taking the time to help me with this.
    1990 Lincoln Town Car 5.0 H.O.

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