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Thread: SBF + AOD in '03+ frame swapped panthers?

  1. #1
    Land Yacht Fundamentalist Hearsesrock427's Avatar
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    Default SBF + AOD in '03+ frame swapped panthers?

    Just got done reading Mr Bean's modbox thread again, a lot of stuff came back from memory but I learned a couple new things. Took plenty of detailed notes too. I am reasonably confident Eva can get the '03+ frame swap done over the summer. I have a good running SEFI 302 out of an '88 Grand Marquis. AOD works great too. How much does this complicate the swap? Because I'm not just putting old body on new chassis; I'm doing that plus putting old driveline. How much does this add to the bottom line in terms of time and money?

    I know for a fact the engine cradles and motor mounts were different on SBF versus modular cars. Thankfully from what I've read on other sites, you can easily swap cradles via cutting and welding; they should fit without any difficulty. Just the standard measure twice, cut once stuff. But what about the transmission crossmember, and driveshaft? What does running an SBF and AOD in an '03+ chassis mean for wiring and all that stuff? How do I get my '85-'89 steering wheel and shift linkage to work nicely with the '03+ rack and pinion system? I'm not averse to shelling out for some custom parts here and there but I also would like to not spend more than say, $4500 on the entire endeavor. Thanks for any input you can give me.

    (And yes I have considered just putting Eva's body on an '03+ frame, replete with its '03+ powertrain. I just don't want to open another can of worms, especially since the donor vehicle would be bought for cheap. Don't want to have a car go down for a major engine & transmission service right after being down for a frame swap! But rest assured I am highly interested in mating a 4R75 to an SBF in the future; 4-3-2-1 shift pattern is glorious. But if I have a healthy powertrain available right now, I damn well better use it. Plus there's the whole money issue. I'd need a standalone controller from US Shift, plus I'd need to have the 4R thoroughly gone through to ensure it's ready for the thousands of hard miles I put on my cars in the spring and summer.)
    '89 Grand Marquis "Ebyt"
    '85 Grand Marquis "Eva"
    '94 Caprice "Kira"
    '88 Town Car "Lana" coming spring 2021
    '92 Crown Victoria coming summer 2021.

  2. #2
    Stow It! GM_Guy's Avatar
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    I can tell you that you won't be swapping cradles. The 03+ uses a magnesium bolt in front cross member. What I'd be looking at is 1. Will a stock box oil pan fit around the 03 cross member. If not, what ford chassis had a pan in a workable configuration. Then I'd just be welding up motor mount standoffs to fit in whatever configuration was necessary to bolt to the 03+ cradle.
    Time: lots. Cost:how much steel stock and scraps in your material pile?

  3. #3
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    you're putting a lopo in? Why? Thats like paying someone to shoot you in the foot. Much as I'm unimpressed by the 4.6, it moves a hell of a lot better than the 150 hp non-HO lump does.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  4. #4
    Domestic Tourist Lincolnmania's Avatar
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    they use that crossmember and front suspension on old ford trucks. sure wouldnt want to do any mods tho to make a 150 hp engine fit. heck my economy car has 200 hp lol

    1986 lincoln towncar signature series. 5.0 HO with thumper performance ported e7 heads, 1.7 roller rockers, warm air intake, 65mm throttle body, 1/2" intake spacer, ported intakes, 3.73 rear with trac lock, 98-02 front brake conversion, 92-97 rear disc conversion, 1" rear swaybar, 1 3/16" front swaybar, 16" wheels and tires, loud ass stereo system, badass cb, best time to date 15.94 at 87 mph. lots of mods in the works 221.8 rwhp 278 rwt
    2006 Lincoln Town Car Signature. Stock for now
    1989 Ford F-250 4x4 much much more to come, sefi converted so far.
    1986 Toyota pickup with LSC wheels and 225/60/16 tires.
    2008 Hyundai Elantra future Revcon toad
    1987 TriBurner and 1986 Alaska stokers keeping me warm. (and some pesky oil heat)

    please be patient, rebuilding an empire!


  5. #5
    Hobbit
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    Check the Ford truck frame swap groups, there are a few on Facebook. Crown Vic front suspension is a popular swap there.

    I believe these motor mounts would work or you can make your own set.

    https://www.outcastautoworks.com/col...02-351-engines

    Tranny should bolt up using 4R70W mount. Not sure if you can reuse box driveshaft or not. 92' bastard block shaft will fit. Or newer Vic shaft mated to yoke for AOD.

    Wiring just keep everything from the box.

    Steering linkage - you can join box shaft with newer rack using aftermarket u-joint.

    If you want to utilize ABS, it's a standalone system so just needs power.

    At one point I wanted to go SBF with 4R70W using electronics from a 2001 Explorer. Latest and the greatest small block with latest and the greatest electronics available at the time and newer tranny.

    Check out Logan's thread because his swap is closer to what you are trying to do.

  6. #6
    Land Yacht Fundamentalist Hearsesrock427's Avatar
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    Useful info here, thanks all! Seems like it'll cost right around what I thought it would, between motor mounts and driveshaft and U-joints. Overall I'm not worried about cost overruns with Eva. It's always the first truly new project that you do that's the hardest. But I feel more confident now than I did before, especially with some new budding business relationships in the industry.

    On a side note, I will be taking delivery of a properly trashed but not too far gone '89 Town Car in the spring. It's free, and it has the pillow top cloth seats, so it's a no-brainer. It too will be getting '03+ frame swapped this year. Standard 117 inch wheelbase Town Cars are plentiful (obviously you can't use a Town Car L frame, because of its 123 inch wheelbase, a full 6 inches longer than the standard car) and the car will likely need a new frame anyway considering it's been a northern car it's whole life from what I've been told. Is there anything endemic to Lincolns that would be add to the bottom line when doing this swap? At the bare minimum I expect to have to do everything that was discovered from reading Logan and Mr Bean's builds. But I want to be sure all bases are covered; I can't help but think the cowling and the trunk floor will need massaging to fit, but that's all I could come up with. Will advise once this operation begins in any case!

    My reasoning behind running the AOD & SEFI 302 in these first couple frame swapped cars (both of which are boxes, this is important to note) is that I have good working examples I'd rather not see go to waste. I am slowly coming around to a SEFI 351 but that time is not now. Not yet. Besides the fact I'd be getting the donor chassis on the cheap means that said chassis will probably not have a functional powertrain, if even has one with it at all. On top of that, I like the options for a powerful, reliable, NA SBF. Have almost everything researched from aluminum block to forged internals, to HCI. I haven't found anywhere near as many equivalent go-fast parts in the 4.6 2V aftermarket. I couldn't find any aftermarket long runner intake plenums, or any aftermarket blocks. There is very limited aftermarket head choices- much less ones that make power in the low to mid RPMs. Granted it's been over a year since I went digging but I reckon a lot hasn't changed on that front. I have not super distant plans for an all aluminum SEFI 302 build for Ebyt. If my job situation continues to improve, I expect it to be complete by 2027. If the results from that major expenditure are good, you can be damn sure the other boxes will have their engines upgraded to that standard. Same case with the '92 Crown Victoria I'm picking up later this year; I will pursue a similar build with its 281 modular motor when the time comes.

    Beyond that, I just associate SBFs with boxes. They never came with the mod motors, and it just doesn't sit well with me on a core, fundamental level. They sound and feel very different from the 302/351. And yeah, my preference is more based on emotion than anything else, and I'll happily concede that. For what it's worth, I would never run an SBF in an aero, unless it was a '91-'94 Town Car. And I'd have to swap to '90 bumpers front and rear, because authenticity. People should be allowed to experiment, and I fully support that. But for as much as I deviate from stock with my builds, there are a few things I won't change, no matter how much money or words are spent on the matter. This is one of them. Curiously I'm totally okay with running 4R7X and 4-3-2-1 shift pattern (so long as it's column shift); that could easily be filed under the AOD-AODE-4R70W-4R75 linear progression. I'm weird, this is well documented.
    '89 Grand Marquis "Ebyt"
    '85 Grand Marquis "Eva"
    '94 Caprice "Kira"
    '88 Town Car "Lana" coming spring 2021
    '92 Crown Victoria coming summer 2021.

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