'85 crown vic full rebuild

[hazardchild69]

so i'm new to the board and have tons and tons of questions to ask. I have a 1985 crown victoria LTD with a 302ci which needs a lot of work. This car was/is my gf's car and we are planning on completely rebuilding it, it needs extensive body work as well as engine work so i'll most likely be on this board a lot. I finally got it started the other day and now there is a horrible squealing noise when it is running and after a couple minutes of running it stalls out. The sound gets worse when the engine is revved up and the car is driven. I get the feeling the timing is completely out, but wanted to get the opinions of more knowledgable people. If that is the case how would I go about fixing this? Also, I'm looking into just dropping a whole new block into the car, just curious what blocks would fit without major modification under the hood. Is this a worthwhile investment or should I just get another block out of a family friend's crown vic rebuilt and drop that in?

[mrltd]

squealing is a belt or an accessory. Do some searching here about the motors. That's a very common question.

[DuceAnAHalf]

Belt is definatly slipping, check the tension on the belt or just replace it. A gator back costs about $30 (im on my third in a year and a half, too much belt slip cooks and breaks the belts).

[hazardchild69]

so the belt slippage would cause the engine to stall out too? another reason i thought it was the timing was because it spews black gunk out the exhaust, not too sure what it is, looks like an oil/gas mixture of some kind

[87vicFIVEO]

It's not likely the belt slipping is causing your stalling condition. Check the belt tension (by pushing on the belt with your hand) and the overall belt condition (is it full of little cracks).

Your car has two belts, check them both.

If that all checks out you will need to check all of your accessory pulleys. It is possible that your A/C compressor clutch has seized but it could also be the power steering pump, water pump, alternator, smog pump or any other belt driven accessory. If you can remove the belt check each pulley by hand, attempt to spin each pulley, if any of them have excessive resistance that's likely to be your culprit.

Also check for rubbing marks (excessive rubber buildup) on any of the pulleys.

As for your running situation, I don’t think it’s timing…

How many miles on the car?

What motor does it have? (5.0 or 5.8)

If you’re interested in putting a new motor in your car 302 and 351 ford motors bolt in.

[hazardchild69]

the AC compressor doesn't work in the car and so is disconnected but the compressor is still there, the engine is a 5.0 and it has roughly 110,xxx miles on it, and its from northern NY so it has seen its fair share of salty roads. i'll definitely check the belts on the car as soon as i get home.

the 350ci engines will fit without major mods? and what company would you recomend for the motor?

[87vicFIVEO]

the AC compressor doesn't work in the car and so is disconnected but the compressor is still there, the engine is a 5.0 and it has roughly 110,xxx miles on it, and its from northern NY so it has seen its fair share of salty roads. i'll definitely check the belts on the car as soon as i get home.

the 350ci engines will fit without major mods? and what company would you recomend for the motor?

350ci is a chevy motor

351ci and 302ci Windsor engines will fit. (5.0 and 5.8 respectivly)
There are many engine builders that make ford motors, depends on what level of performance you want...but keep in mind that at 100k plus AOD trans may be in need of a rebuild to handle any kind of horsepower increase (even a fresh stock motor).

Even though the A/C compressor is inoperable (even unhooked) the belt still turns its pulley. If the pulley/clutch assembly has seized it will cause the belt the squeal.

[88Vic]

351ci and 302ci Windsor engines will fit. (5.0 and 5.8 respectivly)

Got those two mixed up, it's 302=5.0 and 351=5.8

A 351 will fit in your car with no trouble, since some police models came with a 351. The 351 doesn't have much more power than the 302 and is heavier. If you want to get the most out of a 351, replace the intake and carb for a 4bbl intake and carb, port the heads, performance cam, electric fan, 2.5" true dual exhaust. Those mods will really wake up that engine, and shouldn't be too difficult to do, provided you have the tools and a shop manual. If you need anymore info, don't hesitate to ask, we all want to help you out. And by the way, welcome to GMN.

[Tiggie]

Are you looking into making this car a relatively stock driver or a higher performance car?

Honestly, very few 302's need rebuilt at 110K. You can get 150K out of them, even if they've had little in the way of proper maintence.

That said, I think the others have got the squealing issue down. The Alternator/Water Pump/Crankshaft belt is tightened by loosing the bolt on the top side of the alternator and pulling the alternator farther to the drivers side and tightening it up. It can be done with a friend easily with only a wrench. The other belt has a tensioner; it should tighten itself if it's working properly.
Things like smog pumps or power steering pumps that are on their way out sometimes squeal as well.

Before you invest any money into the car, get underneath and inspect the frame for rust. If the frame is rusty, just send the car to the junkyard (or part it out on here).

Timing that is way off usually causes sputtering, backfiring, and serious lack of power.

The black gunk is due to it running rich. If it's smoke, there is probably a problem with the choke on the CFI unit. Check the CFI/Electronics forum for info on how it is supposted to work. If it's actual stuff blowing onto the ground, it's carbon build up blowing out. A little is normal when you rev it up hard, a lot if it's just sitting there means it's rich and check the choke again. Ther may also be a vacuum leak somewhere.

You car is EEC-IV which means you can pull some trouble codes for us. While they may not be much help, they may give us some direction to go in. Google "EEC-IV testing" and you'll probably come up with some goodies on how to pull the codes.

Welcome to GMN!

[packman]

Black smoke, sputtering, and stalling; could that be bad EGO(s) (exhaust gas oxygen sensor)? How often do those need to be replaced?
Packman

[hazardchild69]

thanks for the welcome, i just went out to the car to check all the belts and they're all good and tight but the sound is still there so i'm guessing its one of the pulleys thats causing the problem.

I know that there is a good deal of rust and the frame has some rust, i personally would just part it out and buy another with less/no rust but my gf loves this car because it was her first car and its like family to her. so we're redoing the whole thing.

The engine has various problems like the oil pan has a huge hole in it, and hasn't been tuned in at least 10 years, and the previous owner neglected it with lack of oil changes and general maintanence. So we're trying to decide on building/buying a whole new block or pulling the current block out and rebuilding it.

i'm looking into making it fairly high performance, not necessarily a dragster(already have a trans am for that) but not your everyday stock driver, this car would only be driven on weekends and such

I'll definitely look up those codes and let you guys know what i find

[grandpaslincoln]

Hole in the pan? Have you checked your oil?

[86VickyLX]

Black smoke, sputtering, and stalling; could that be bad EGO(s) (exhaust gas oxygen sensor)? How often do those need to be replaced?
Packman

Black smoke could be a bad map or no vacuum to the map. It will throw a code and maybe others. The car will run rough and even stall because it is loading up with fuel because the car does not know how much fuel to give the car. I don't know if it's the same with a CFI, as it is with EFI. I don't know. I'm just going off from experience.

[gadget73]

Yessir, check for vacuum leaks. Low vacuum = rich condition which will make black/grey smoke. The EGR spacers get clogged up on CFI cars (your 85 is a CFI car) so you may need to pull the injector unit and take that EGR spacer out to get the carbon junk out of it.

[hazardchild69]

yea i've checked the oil and surprisingly it's still good and hasn't leaked out, the puddle under the car was hardly anything considering. i'll be checking the codes as soon as it gets nicer out, it got pretty shitty out today, and i'll be sure to try cleaning the egr spacers.

how would i go about checking for vacuum leaks?