Need engine swap ideas...

[interceptor1985]

lower it, make it twowheel drive and supercharge the thing....

[mrltd]

lower it, make it twowheel drive and supercharge the thing....

Uh, most vics are 2 wheel drive...

[Nathan in MI]

If you could find an old exhaust gas analyzer (Sears used to sell 'em) you could use that to adjust the thing to pass emissions. Obviously you'd have to have the cats on there just to pass emissions, but that would help you get it dialed in.

[1987cp]

Interesting suggestion. When did Sears sell 'em, and where might a person be able to find one now?

[Nathan in MI]

Man, I dunno...it's been awhile. We've got one, but my dad has probably had it since he was in high school lol

Might check eBay, though. My dad always used to use his to tune his '78 Dodge to pass emissions. That one had no cats at all and he got it to pass with flying colors every year.

[torquelover]

Hey guys, thanks for the ideas! Looks like the first step is getting some AFR monitoring equipment, Edelbrock tuning and rebuild kits, and some good cats. I did have someone suggest converting to alcohol, which I will look into further. The car is catless due to a failed BBK 351 Swap Shortie + Mustang H-pipe install. I know it should have worked, but it was way off. I like cats: it's legal; you don't smell like fuel after being around the car running; and it takes the rasp out of my exhaust. My car being a P72 out here unfortunately doesn't change the testing standards. And, while it sits a little high, it's still 2WD, so no mass parts deletion will be necessary :smirk:.

[P72Ford]

Well... if all you need to do is pass emissions, I have the solution to buy you some time. It appears as though passing emissions is a priority in your decision on the engine swap. This method may allow you to keep the windsor, and still pass emissions. I'm sure others on the board have heard of this idea, and some have probably done it themselves (no, none of you guys have done this... right? Didn't think so).

Okay, so first things first, throw some dummy cats on there. My old man used heat shields as dummy cats forever; just becauise he hates cats and the smell they make. We have an '81 Caprice Estate Wagon that has a 350 Olds motor in it. Its a Q-jet and it would never pass without the use of... alcohol.

Well, you can use dry gas, but my dad bought 5 gallons of methanol instead. Do not buy methanol if your are going to try this. Definitely go with ethanol, as its a little bit friendlier to the engine, from my experience. Methanol is basically fuel injector cleaner. Our gasoline is already cut with 10% ethanol, so ethanol is a better alcohol to use. Run your tank low on gas, put some alky in there, and take it through. You may want to leave some gas in the tank; maybe a few gallons, and then add some alky (50/50 ratio). It will pass. Now, the old Caprice ran like a total turd on the stuff, as absolutely no adjustments were made (I'd suppose a jet change, timing changes, amongst other things are needed to run this right). However, It had also suffered froma recent episode that severely damages the engine. That was part of its reason for running like junk. (Always remember; if you have old gas tanks with gas in them, don't use it. If the gas looks like varnish, it may just stick the valves and bend the push rods... who'd of thought?).

So the Caprice went off to the testing station with bent pushrods and quarter tank of methanol. Barely running. The guy couldn't keep the car in the desired speed range when it was on the rollers. He told my Dad to "tune it up" and then bring it back. My dad told him to test it and give him the fail sticker. He finally was able to make the test and... it passed with flying colors. There was virtually no emissions. The guy looked at us in disbelief as we putted away.

Like I said, it may not be good for the engine (certainly isn't if the proper adjusments aren't made), but god damn it works well. Also, they sell some shit called guaranteed to pass at WalMart. Its probably just ethanol though.

This method has also been used in a certain CVPI with a VV. It ran on the alky with no adverse affects. No missing or detonation either. I think this works well. You may be skeptical to try it, but the alcohol burns hot, and emissions are very low. Just make sure you have the dummy cats...

[torquelover]

My buddy of mine did that with an old Bronco about a decade ago. Carbureted I6. Ran like crap, but it passed. I am definitely looking into this, and joked with a few of the members here on running an alternate fuel system for temporary purposes. Something about an old washer fluid tank under the hood, a jet change...

[P72Ford]

Something about an old washer fluid tank under the hood, a jet change...

Hmmmmmm...

[packman]

I am not sure what kind of A/F ratio ethanol or methanol runs on, but I am pretty sure that it will need more fuel per air ppms. That is part of the reason why alcohol for the street never quite made it. Plus its BPUs are a lot lower than gasoline (gasoline is actually more efficient than the alky fuels) which is why you need a rich mixture for the engine to run right. I don't know the tune, but I knew somebody that tried this when NJ decided nine years ago to test all cars (classic and antique) under the newer inspection standards. My friend's Charger didn't quite run right with methanol. I realized years after that we were probably running it way too lean.


Packman

[Nathan in MI]

Yep, Packman's got it right. I don't have the figures in front of me, but I believe the difference is somewhere around 114,000 BTUs per gallon of gasoline vs. 75,000 BTUs per gallon of ethanol. Those numbers probably aren't quite right, but it's somewhere around there. Being that there's far less energy available per molecule, it takes a greater number of molecules for the engine to make the same amount of power. If you want to run ethanol, it would basically require rejetting the carb so it'd run a fair bit richer. Other changes would probably be necessary as well, but jetting is the big difference.

[1987cp]

What changes other than the usual tuning and calibration changes could be needed to run on alcohol or E85? Well, I guess I've heard something about alcohol-compatible gaskets and sealants .......

[Nathan in MI]

Hot Rod did an article about tuning your car to run on ethanol-based fuels awhile back. I have the magazine; unfortunately I think I left it at home, so I won't be seeing it for awhile. From what I remember, it was mostly a matter of jetting changes, and as you mentioned, making sure your gaskets, seals, rubber lines (if any), etc. are alcohol-compatible. You'd also be wise, if you haven't done so already, to install an in-line fuel filter. Ethanol is an excellent cleaning solvent, so any crap that's in your gas tank/lines will get loosened up and end up in your carburetor if it isn't filtered out ahead of time. I've heard of situations where guys have switched from petroleum-based diesel fuel in diesel trucks to biodiesel (same basic idea as E85 type stuff) and gone through three or four fuel filters in less than a hundred miles!

But I digress--the point of the article was that while E85 may not be the best choice for a daily driver (fuel economy with the stuff is lousy), it makes an excellent race fuel, since its octane rating is somewhere in the neighborhood of 105, and it's much cheaper than avgas or the like. If I was going to build up a vehicle for hot rod-type use only, I wouldn't mind calibrating it to run on E85 so that I could run crazier compression ratios.

[packman]

I would say change the fuel lines over to steel. However, since you're only doing it for a day, you don't have to worry about the alky eating through the rubber parts (o-rings, gaskets, etc...). I also heard that aluminum is a no no too, but that is also a long term issue too.


Packman


Packman

[torquelover]

I also heard that aluminum is a no no too, but that is also a long term issue too.
Packman

Eek, my carb and manifold are aluminum.