More cooling system issues

[andymac0035]

copper plus? never heard of it. all i used was the black rtv sealant. and by now your brackets are probly looking like crap(oil,rust,dirt)? hit them with brake clean and a brush and nice coat of engine paint. When its all done it'll look real nice.

Errrrr, make that Permatex copper-plus sealant/gasket maker. (I forgot the brand name)
It's what I used on the Dodge pick-up I had for the diff covers (no gaskets on those).

[andymac0035]

Oh, another thing no one's mentioned yet, water pump bolts on small block Fords have a nasty tendency to rust in place, and it can be easy to snap them off when removing them if you're not careful, which then makes a minor project a rather huge one.

I've never personally had an issue with it, so I'm not saying necessarily that it will be a problem for you, but watch for it. If you find one that doesn't want to move, try giving it a good smack on the end with a hammer and punch. You'd be surprised what that will knock loose sometimes. Also, once you get them moving, if one starts to stiffen up as you're loosening it, turn it back in a little ways, then start turning it out again until it begins to stiffen up again, and repeat. You may already know all this stuff, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to mention it just in case.

Thank-you! That is very-much something I needed to know about.
(that stopped me from changing my tranny fluid and filter)(well I got half of them loose...LOL)
Is it a good sign that I've been able to get the alternator bracket (belt change) and P/S bolts off (new P/S pump) recently?

[tim marks]

its normally the two bolts going into the timing cover, normally. sometimes the long bolts going though the cover into the block give you a tough time too....all of the other bolts should be a breeze

[ironstealth]

its normally the two bolts going into the timing cover, normally. sometimes the long bolts going though the cover into the block give you a tough time too....all of the other bolts should be a breeze

yeah i know what you mean.the whole time i was workin on it i kept sayin "dont break,dont break" lol

that copper stuff seems a little over kill though. just make sure it says to use where it could come into contact with antifreeze or find out the heat range cuz if it cannot dry properly you could have leaks.

[andymac0035]

that copper stuff seems a little over kill though. just make sure it says to use where it could come into contact with antifreeze or find out the heat range cuz if it cannot dry properly you could have leaks.

I just looked at the package. Basically, it's a hi-temp (700 deg.) RTV silicone.
Only thing it says not to use it for is with head gaskets. (gasoline sensitive)

[andymac0035]

So, I drove my 22 miles home tonight (yes I work nights).......

And......no leaking. Checked when I got home (engine running) no leaking.....and then shut it off and waited a minute.....checked again.....no leak.

I would imagine that if it were the gasket the leak would be constant.

Sooooo.....educate me here.......what causes the pump to randomly loose small amounts of coolant out the weephole after shutting of a hot (normal temp) engine?

The overflow tank dropped like 1/4" and now reads exactly on the "full" mark.

[luddite]

My take on this after reading all the posts is that your water pump is dying.

Yes, money is tight, but being stranded if the pump totally fails before replacement will cost you more than a scheduled replacement.

Don't be lured into delaying replacement just because "And......no leaking. Checked when I got home (engine running) no leaking.....and then shut it off and waited a minute.....checked again.....no leak." happened one day.

[CheeseSteakJim]

IIRC Copper RTV is used for exhaust manifold gaskets... though I could be wrong.


Another thing that'll help loosen bolts without breaking them is this:

Instead of just heaving on the bolts as hard as you can to break them loose, put a breaker bar on them and then either repeatedly yank it with your hand or hold it tight and hit the handle downwards with a hammer. It's sort of like you're using an impact gun to loosen them but you're shocking the bolts by hand. I've had MANY bolts come loose that just plain wouldn't beforehand. After it comes loose you can just take it right out.

[andymac0035]

OOoo.......I have access to an air compressor and impact gun.
Should I try that appoach first, or only if bolts are stubborn?

As for being stranded, I don't have to drive the car. I can park it and drive my wife's car.
Doing so sucks for other (long story) reasons, but so does being stranded.

Just wanting to understand what's going on with the pump.
What typically causes fluid to leak out the water pump's weep hole?

[Nathan in MI]

I'd be cautious about using the impact. The vibrations it makes can help break rust loose, but it's got plenty of torque to twist the bolts right off, too. If you can hit them gently and see what wants to come loose, go ahead, but if you find one that doesn't spin out immediately, it may be safer to proceed by hand.

[andymac0035]

Called my usual parts store:

Water pump (new and supposedly with gaskets) = $47.19

Upper radiator hose = $13.86

Lower radiator hose = $19.22

Bypass hose (that lil' elbow) = $8.51

Also, they don't have timing sets listed, and I forgot to check on the gasket, but they do list just the chain for $13.88. How important is changing the whole set vs just the chain?

[1987cp]

Ultra Copper high-temp sealant is fine for water pumps, though Ultra Black is maybe a little better for non-exhaust-header applications. I don't normally bother with the gaskets on water pumps or thermostat necks ... coincidentally, the engine I assembled 3 summers ago and went ahead and used all the gaskets, I just had to fix because the gasket turned into a huge leak. Go figure.

I spent about $65 last time I bought all new radiator and heater hoses. That was including the two Z-shaped hoses from the fancy tube thing to the firewall; using regular bulk hose instead of the heater tubes would maybe save a little on the hoses.

Proceed with caution on the side water pump bolts that go into the block! My personal experience with a busted water-pump bolt was that it sheared off in the middle of the front cover, and then I stupidly put Vise-Grips on it without any penetrant or heat. Broke it off flush with the block this time, them proceeded to break off an easy-out flush with the block as well. Machinist said the block was junk ..... I just so happened to know a guy who knew a guy who was willing to fiddle with it, so we took the engine over to his house. A week or two and $60 later, all was out and it had a nice heli-coil in the hole and I was able to continue using the engine.


I wouldn't personally dig into the timing set on just a water pump job, especially if the car has low miles .... you should be able to pick up a double-roller timing set for around $25. Ask for it for a Mustang if the listings are being difficult. Changing just the chain isn't so good, as the nylon-toothed cam sprocket tends to be failure-prone as it ages. Replacements are always 100% steel, so they're more reliable.

[andymac0035]

Okay, looks like this will be just a pump change then. I won't plan on changing anything else unless I see something bad in there. I'll also plan on erring on the side of caution with regards to the bolts.

Oh, I don't know if this matters or not but......
When I replaced the radiator I re-used the old cap. It fit on okay and all......
But when I tried to take it off it didn't want to come off. It would start to turn and then catch on those tabs. I could not push it down far enough......I actually had to flex each side of the cap and twist to get it past the stops.
.....it goes back on just fine though.

Could this be over-pressurizing the system?

[1987cp]

What is the rating on the radiator cap? Stock is something like 14 or 16; I once bought one rated at I think 18.

[andymac0035]

16 I think, (I'm at work now so I can't check it).
It's a motorcraft one, so I'm assuming it's original.
Is it possible the old cap is going bad?

Drove it to work, no issue's. (but I'm keeping a close eye on it.)
I have a partial jug of anti-freeze and a gallon of water in the trunk, just in case.