Does the EFI 5.0 need the egr spacer?

[over2tonsofFun]

I am wondering if the 5.0 EFI need the egr spacer to run properly? Or is it just emission BS. I am wanting to upgrade my intake and TB. but don't want to have to run the ugly EGR spacer.

Tim

[zoomie]

well you could do an egr delet mustangs do iot all the time, might have a few issue though , last i checked gas mialeg suffers or somethign or other

[sick88tbird]

I am wondering if the 5.0 EFI need the egr spacer to run properly? Or is it just emission BS. I am wanting to upgrade my intake and TB. but don't want to have to run the ugly EGR spacer.

Tim

There is also coolant running through the EGR spacer to prevent throttle shaft icing...unless it's a dedicated summer only car, I'd recommend leaving it there...if you do decide to do away with it, you'll have to find another way to mount your throttle cable bracket and at least need to keep the EGR sensor plugged in. I've heard some people complain of occasional pinging with the EGR deleted, I have yet to experience it myself.

Good luck,
Don

[87gtVIC]

if you do decide to do away with it, you'll have to find another way to mount your throttle cable bracket

Good luck,
Don

This.

You will have to fab up a delete plate that can house the mounting provisions for the throttle cable bracket and such.

[Crownvicman289]

You can buy a plug that tells the EEC that the EGR is always closed, this should alleviate your pinging. I'll let you know when I try it. When the EEC thinks the valve is open, it advances the timing and leans out the AFR's. It does this because the exhaust theoretically had no leftover fuel or oxygen in it, so it doesn't induce any combustion supporting oxygen to the intake charge. It's basically just taking up space. This has the effect of lowering the dynamic compression ratio, lowering exhaust temps, and because less fuel is injected per cycle, increases fuel economy in certain cases. I took the EGR off my '88 TBI 350 Chevy C1500 and noticed no difference in MPG and no pinging. I disabled it in my '98 GMCK1500 5.7L with EFILive and no difference in MPG. When the EGR valve opens, it has the effect of reducing the CID of your engine.

[gadget73]

Its mostly required as a place to bolt the throttle cables to. Many of us don't run coolant to it, and a fair number have unhooked the EGR valve itself but the throttle cable bracket needs to hook to something. Honestly the EGR does no real harm. I've run it and not run it and as long as the system is working properly, I can't tell a damn bit of difference in how the motor performs.

[1980c10]

I use a mustang egr delete plate, I had to do some mods to my throttle cable bracket and to the egr delete plate but it works great.

[King_V]

EGR is benign, other than clutter and part failure. As far as I know, it doesn't operate at full throttle, and when at light/part throttle, it actually somewhat reduces pumping losses, thus increasing fuel economy at cruising while reducing NOx emissions.

It almost qualifies as a something-for-nothing type of emission control device.

[88grandmarq]

I found this posted on corral.net. So, if you got a EGR code (31,32,33,34 or 35) and have crappy MPG, this might explain why.
This also applies to all you guys who think blocking off the EGR "improves" performance.

Quote:
"you shouldn't run the block-off unless you're either not running EGR or there's an alternate supply for it, because...

...the fuel management strategy assumes the presence of a functioning EGR system and you'll get an overly lean part-throttle cruise if you block it off and don't have a chip tune to tell the computer not to...and when you have a lean part-throttle cruise, the EEC picks that information up from the O2 sensors and adds fuel. But it doesn't just add fuel to part-throttle cruise operation, it adds compensating fuel even during open-loop (non-O2-feedback) conditions such as startup, idle, and WOT.

Short story is since the EEC assumes a functioning EGR, and if you haven't instructed it otherwise, you're setting yourself up for rich running and resulting performance/driveability issues by blocking off its flow."

[1990LTD]

awesome info.

[Crownvicman289]

I found this posted on corral.net. So, if you got a EGR code (31,32,33,34 or 35) and have crappy MPG, this might explain why.
This also applies to all you guys who think blocking off the EGR "improves" performance.

Quote:
"you shouldn't run the block-off unless you're either not running EGR or there's an alternate supply for it, because...

...the fuel management strategy assumes the presence of a functioning EGR system and you'll get an overly lean part-throttle cruise if you block it off and don't have a chip tune to tell the computer not to...and when you have a lean part-throttle cruise, the EEC picks that information up from the O2 sensors and adds fuel. But it doesn't just add fuel to part-throttle cruise operation, it adds compensating fuel even during open-loop (non-O2-feedback) conditions such as startup, idle, and WOT.

Short story is since the EEC assumes a functioning EGR, and if you haven't instructed it otherwise, you're setting yourself up for rich running and resulting performance/driveability issues by blocking off its flow."

Re-read your post, it'll cause you to run LEAN if you block the EGR and don't tell the EEC. It'll also advance the timing, so if you've already advanced it past stock you might encounter pinging. Here's my post again.

You can buy a plug that tells the EEC that the EGR is always closed, this should alleviate your pinging. I'll let you know when I try it. When the EEC thinks the valve is open, it advances the timing and leans out the AFR's. It does this because the exhaust theoretically had no leftover fuel or oxygen in it, so it doesn't induce any combustion supporting oxygen to the intake charge. It's basically just taking up space. This has the effect of lowering the dynamic compression ratio, lowering exhaust temps, and because less fuel is injected per cycle, increases fuel economy in certain cases. I took the EGR off my '88 TBI 350 Chevy C1500 and noticed no difference in MPG and no pinging. I disabled it in my '98 GMCK1500 5.7L with EFILive and no difference in MPG. When the EGR valve opens, it has the effect of reducing the CID of your engine.

[gadget73]

well, you're both possibly right, and let me tell you why.

if the egr valve is opening and feeding a signal to the ECM that it opened, but it does not in fact have any flow, the engine runs lean and with more timing. if the EGR valve does not open, or it has an eliminator plug or something that feeds an always-closed signal, then the motor runs richer and with less timing. Thats not to say it runs richer than it needs to, but it runs richer than it would if the EGR system was working. This is part of why later EGR systems use a flow sensor and not simply a valve position sensor. With the position sensor, the valve can open, but the ports can be clogged (or blocked) and the ECM has no way of knowing it. It simply assumes all is cool as long as it sees that valve in the open position. With a flow sensor, the ECM can tell if there is actually exhaust gas moving through the valve and will adjust itself accordingly.

[88grandmarq]

Re-read your post, it'll cause you to run LEAN if you block the EGR and don't tell the EEC. It'll also advance the timing, so if you've already advanced it past stock you might encounter pinging. Here's my post again.

what I posted is a quote from Corral.net... it was part of a tech info thread made by a retired Ford engineer, who happens to be one of the top EEC-IV tuners in the country and also helped design the EEC-IV system.

it was my answer to the original posters question, "do you really need the EGR spacer for the engine to run properly" .... and correct answer is "YES"

*UNLESS* you have the ECM tuned properly to turn off the EGR functions in the programming, then you can delete the EGR spacer, valve and control solenoids.

[Mercracer]

There is also coolant running through the EGR spacer to prevent throttle shaft icing...

The coolant is there to cool the EGR spacer. Exhaust gasses are hot. It has zero to do with your throttle shaft.....

[88grandmarq]

maybe it does both?