My '85 MGM, "Maisa"

[Arquemann]

Things have happened. Some of them including gratuitous amounts of frustration and swearing.

The Holley carb has completely shit the bed, idle mixtures don't stay even remotely consistent between startups. AFRs can range basically anywhere between 13 to 16 without touching the idle screws, which have become a suggestive adjustment anyways.

Got the car inspected on the 25th. I adjusted the idle to about 14 in the inspection center parking lot. 10 minutes later during the emissions check the monitor displayed around 1.01-1.03 lambda, which is about 15.0 afr Inspector found nothing else to complain about than the air freshener hanging on the rear view mirror.

A few days later I brought an expensive box home, it says Edelbrock 1902 on it.


But instead of installing the carb, I started on the dual exhaust I've been planning for quite a while.True duals due to simplicity.
I should've just left it as a shitty single...

- Had to do it outside, so no welding under the car, I can't fab for shit either
- Mounting the tailpipe and muffler sucked major balls, had to use crappy universal hangers and there's very little space
- The AP/Eastern tailpipe tip is slash cut at a different angle, bent differently and its also shorter than the other so it doesn't even come up to the bumper
- I cut off the banana-shaped flanges off the back of the cats, thinking I'd be better off with those slip fit extension couplers, buut they're actually utter garbage!
- Pipes went in place alright, basic slip fit 45s worked nicely from the cats back and a bit of straight section for the new driver side. Reused the back part of the old Y-pipe
- LEAKS

Still sounds about the same, boomy and toneless at idle. Sounds a bit throatier on throttle, but that's about it.
Now I've got a bunch of extra clamped connections and I'm already at like round 3 of trying to fix leaks. I've had to use plenty of exhaust putty, which will probably start cracking and leaking again sooner or later.

I knew this wasn't going to be a simple job, but the whole thing has been just frustrating misery from the start. After I had gotten the tailpipe and muffler mounted I was really questioning if I wanted to even finish the job, as I hadn't done anything not easily reversible yet. But I'm not a quitter, so I kept going.

So instead of just regretting having spent way too much on a muffler and a shitty tailpipe, now I get to regret about overpaying AND having an awful botch job of an exhaust. I am simply disgusted by my own workmanship, despite doing the very best I could with my skills and the current materials, tools and circumstances.

[Tiggie]

I hate exhaust work. None of my exhaust work looks good. Red RTV holds up pretty well past the cats!

[gadget73]

unless its fitting stock replacement type things, or super simple clamp in a straight section, I'm hopeless with it.

[Arquemann]

First drive was somewhat successful I guess. Right off the ramps, jammed 5 peeps in the car and off to a cruise night ~50km away.
Didn't fall off, didn't start leaking horribly, doesn't bang around and is only slightly noisier in the cabin.

Only thing I noticed is (what I was kinda expecting) is the shitty universal hanger sometimes bottoms out when it compresses on harsher bumps on the road. The rubber compresses too much and allows the metal parts to touch eachother, which causes a noticeable clunk inside.

I guess I'll figure out another hanger for the muffler and do a little adjusting on the hanger for the tailpipe. It's sitting too low, kinda.

Biggest gripe apart from my own workmanship is the AP 64706 tailpipe. The arch over the axle is too tall, so I had to mount the back of the muffler lower than the other side to keep the arch part from hitting the floor above the axle. Also the whole tip / turndown section is completely different than the old pass. side. I think the angles are different too so I don't think I could get them looking equal even with new tips.

[Arquemann]

Exhaust is done, I guess.

- Replaced the muffler hanger with one that doesn't squeak or compress as much. Quality control, what's that?
- Evened out the tailpipes, lowered the old one and raised the new one. The turndown angles are about 5 degress off.
- Bought stainless turndown exhaust tips because the new tailpipe is too short and the slash cut is wrong.
- The stainless tips look so fucking ugly on there that gave them to my dad.
- Made an extension to the new tailpipe with a piece of straight section and cut a new slash cut with the correct angle.

So now I've got factory looking slash cut tailpipes and they're even kinda symmetrical. Could be tucked up higher, but the left side tailpipe would start hitting things.
Might spritz them with some matte black to hide the tips better.

[gadget73]

I always preferred basically hidden exhaust, or at least stock-looking. Downturns with a slash cut that can just about be seen from behind are fine by me.

[Arquemann]

Something happened with the pic on the last post. I deleted the post.

Anyways,
the angle of the dangle is a bit different, and I'd prefer them to be tucked up higher. But atleast they don't look weird or mismatched, they shouldn't soot the bumper and exit far back enough that sound shouldn't get trapped under the car.

Having now driven the car with the tip extension on the driver side, it indeed affected things. The cabin noise is basically all gone, only the slightest rumble at low rpm can be heard. Not sure if its a good or a bad things TBH.

[Tynnerstroem]

Nice work on the exhaust chief. Looks stock (a compliment!) and I'd assume it helps the drivability a bit. Also, your inspection guys give you shit for stuff in the rear view mirror? To the point where it's in the protocol? Over here they haven't a care to spare haha.

[Arquemann]

Nice work on the exhaust chief. Looks stock (a compliment!) and I'd assume it helps the drivability a bit. Also, your inspection guys give you shit for stuff in the rear view mirror? To the point where it's in the protocol? Over here they haven't a care to spare haha.

Thanks, stock is what I wanted (except for true duals vs. stock H-pipe). I don't think I can really feel any difference, but sounding a bit less asthmatic does make it seem better.

I've had the same freshener hanging on the mirror for near 7 years and 6 inspections without issue. It hangs kinda low so it's barely even in the way if you're sitting upright.
On one Audi I had taken for inspection, the inspector had taken the stuff off the mirror and put them in the cup holder. No mention about anything.

"Obstructions in the field of view" are a real point of inspection. Most inspectors don't give a damn about a single air fresherner on the mirror etc. but having a windshield banner or huge bundle of fresheners will usually get you an advisory (reparationsuppmaning). Having tint or film on the front windows is an instant fail.

[gadget73]

As someone who lives in one of the many states with zero safety inspections, and having seen the absolute hunks of shit we have on the road and the cars that have massive amounts of crap hanging off the mirror, that just makes me laugh.

[Arquemann]

New Edelbrock is on, had to do some fiddling with the fuel line and throttle linkages, aswell as swap the Lokar TV cable to a different hole on the arm.
Fired right up, idle mix was quick to adjust, RPM felt maybe a touch high, but the idle screw was basically all the way out already so I guess that'll be that. Can of ether didn't find any leaks. I eyeballed the TV adjustment almost spot on, a bit on the tight side.

Runs alright right out of the box, except for very light throttle where it is brutally lean. Even standing still in neutral or park. Anywhere between from 17 to 20:1, jerky and stumbly to the point of being genuinely undriveable, I think I hear pinging too.

So far it seems like I get to fuck with DIY air bleed restrictors on this carb aswell. Exactly the type of issues I was hoping to avoid by picking the smallest Edelbrock in hopes of it being a good match for the stock 302. I don't understand how it can be this shit.

[gadget73]

are the transition slots fully blocked? that can cause a lean-out at very light throttle. Shouldn't be idling high with the screw fully backed out either, maybe carb blades positioned wierdly and hanging open a bit?

[Arquemann]

are the transition slots fully blocked? that can cause a lean-out at very light throttle. Shouldn't be idling high with the screw fully backed out either, maybe carb blades positioned wierdly and hanging open a bit?

Transfer slots are pretty squared even with the curb idle screw out, which I find a bit odd. But everything looks and seems fine. Throttle snaps shut crisp and sharp even if it doesn't shut onto the idle screw. I have it so the throttle just stops on the screw. (I changed from manifold to ported vacuum for the vacuum advance, looks like I'll have to keep it that way or my idle will be too high)


Anyways, the lean issue seems to be exactly the same as on the old Holley, but to a much more severe degree. Transition circuit is just lean.
The fix was, again, to put small gauge metal wire into the low speed air bleeds (bypass idle air bleeds in this case).

None of the Edelbrock literature or guides tell you anything about tuning air bleeds. Even on Holleys these things are adjustable only on the higher end / race stuff.

I found an excellent & very detailed PDF write up on the air bleed & fuel restrictor stuff, they recommended 25-30 gauge wire.
I went with 0.52mm (~24 gauge) because that's what I had on hand.
Seems to have done the trick, thing is actually driveable at low speeds and at low throttle input. Absolutely pinky toeing it results to about 16.0:1, which is fine, but not the smoothest thing in the world. Retarding the initial advance by a couple degrees might be the thing to do here. Or replacing the 0.52mm wire with 0.6mm, which I do have. It's just miserably fiddly thing to do.

Now that the car is actually driveable, its time to get to the tuning part. Heavy throttle is pig rich, dunno if the cruisings speeds are lean or rich, AFRs seem to bounce around alot.


Miscellaneous complaints & observations section:
- This Edelbrock/AFB type carb is one fiddly fucking thing. Way too many moving parts, linkages and tiny clips and screws compared to a Holley.
- Not having to spill petrol like on a Holley is not worth the hassle of removing the top off an Edelbrock. 10 screws, 2 rods, 2 clips & 3 linkages.
- The teeny tiny clips for the linkages must be Satan's invention, I had to find the smallest needle nose pliers to even get them off. Can't wait to drop one in the engine bay, had a hard time finding one even off the garage floor...
- Build quality is crappy, gouges, dings, plenty of sharp casting flash, nothing is deburred, threads are gummy. Even the fancy AVS2 plaque had dents from being sloppily riveted on.
- Tuning isn't nearly as straightforward as on a Holley. Here's a chart of the options we allow, figure the springs out yourself ya facken toddler.

Everyone seems to promise everything to the moon and back about how amazing these AVS2s are, how they're the best cruising carb bar none. Throttle response, serviceability, ease of use blah blah. So far I am not impressed. Cruising AFRs, idle and tip-in are in the ballpark and my dumpster fire Holley still felt far better.

[DerekTheGreat]

...Miscellaneous complaints & observations section:
- This Edelbrock/AFB type carb is one fiddly fucking thing. Way too many moving parts, linkages and tiny clips and screws compared to a Holley.
- Not having to spill petrol like on a Holley is not worth the hassle of removing the top off an Edelbrock. 10 screws, 2 rods, 2 clips & 3 linkages.
- The teeny tiny clips for the linkages must be Satan's invention, I had to find the smallest needle nose pliers to even get them off. Can't wait to drop one in the engine bay, had a hard time finding one even off the garage floor...
- Build quality is crappy, gouges, dings, plenty of sharp casting flash, nothing is deburred, threads are gummy. Even the fancy AVS2 plaque had dents from being sloppily riveted on.
- Tuning isn't nearly as straightforward as on a Holley. Here's a chart of the options we allow, figure the springs out yourself ya facken toddler.

Everyone seems to promise everything to the moon and back about how amazing these AVS2s are, how they're the best cruising carb bar none. Throttle response, serviceability, ease of use blah blah. So far I am not impressed. Cruising AFRs, idle and tip-in are in the ballpark and my dumpster fire Holley still felt far better.

Goes hand in hand with a quote I got from a friend of mine, "The message you hear isn't necessarily the right message, it's most likely the loudest and most repeated." Like you, I see that about Ecklebrock garbs and have even thought I might just try one should I ever need a garb again, because of how frequently I see 'em out there. Your assessment essentially echos what's bouncing around in my head about 'em though, especially about all the parts and what not. I'll happily pull the bolts out of a Holley float bowl with some napkins laid down before I want to deal with the other nonsense.

Reviews these days are mostly shit. I think that's because every business model is now centered on 'em and so people are paid to leave reviews and the negative ones get taken down for honesty. "Your results will vary." That they will, and if possible I'd rather conversate with someone who has used the thing in question for longer than a day. As far as garbs go, I think most are happy if they can slap the thing on, turn the key & have it light off without stalling and if it doesn't bog/hesitate while driving. They don't seem to care about AFR, only QOL.

[Arquemann]

Goes hand in hand with a quote I got from a friend of mine, "The message you hear isn't necessarily the right message, it's most likely the loudest and most repeated." Like you, I see that about Ecklebrock garbs and have even thought I might just try one should I ever need a garb again, because of how frequently I see 'em out there. Your assessment essentially echos what's bouncing around in my head about 'em though, especially about all the parts and what not. I'll happily pull the bolts out of a Holley float bowl with some napkins laid down before I want to deal with the other nonsense.

Reviews these days are mostly shit. I think that's because every business model is now centered on 'em and so people are paid to leave reviews and the negative ones get taken down for honesty. "Your results will vary." That they will, and if possible I'd rather conversate with someone who has used the thing in question for longer than a day. As far as garbs go, I think most are happy if they can slap the thing on, turn the key & have it light off without stalling and if it doesn't bog/hesitate while driving. They don't seem to care about AFR, only QOL.

I didn't pick Edelbrock because of the reviews, but I do get what you mean. Discussing carbs on the internet is completely hopeless. The overly positive and negative voices drown out everything else, unless you're looking for specific advice. And even then there'll probably be someone yelling to "just put a 600 double pumper on it", or "ditch that leaky Holley garbage".

I picked the Edelbrock because it has small primaries, fuel won't get stale in the secondaries, it was relatively affordable and kinda did want to check out Edels for a comparison.
A smaller vacuum Holley with 4-corner idle would be great, except there's no such thing (and I don't like 4-corner idles). Or a 2bbl, but then I'd just get a 2150...


And as an extra little FU, I had messaged one of the more prominent Edelbrock "gurus" from the JewToobs. laying out the essential info and issues. He proceeded to misread EVERY SINGLE POINT I made, concluded that I have a vacuum leak, told me to revert all changes I'd made and quite bluntly insulted me. Fuck that guy.

But I will make this Edelbrock work the best I can, after that I'll conclude if it's staying or not.