Prudence, my 87 Town Car

[gadget73]

single biggest drawback to a fixed orifice is that its only optimal under one set of conditions. In the real world where airflow, air temperature, and compressor speed are constantly changing that basically means its never optimal and you end up with the best compromise that can be had. On the other hand the expansion device is as simple as it can possibly get which makes it both reliable and cheap. real expansion valves have moving parts in them and they can and do jam up.

[87GrandMarq]

Not to hijack but I’ve done a little research and it seems the consensus says to stay with a fixed oriface tube. Anyone switched to a variable oriface tube and has been running one for a while? I’m going to be redoing the ac on my 87 mgm but haven’t decided which oriface tube to get yet.

[friskyfrankie]

Never used a variable tube - always used a fixed one and if they are clean - never had a negative issues with one.

[Lutrova]

Tomorrow we set off for Michigan. The Lincoln doesn't have the best record with road trips, but maybe this will be the one that works out. If it does break down, it will at least be clean.

On a meetup in Detroit, I think One-Eyed Betty's is the way to go. I'm tentatively saying Sunday at 2:30 pm, but there are a lot of unknowns that may alter the timeline. I'll DM my phone number and provide a better ETA on the morning of.

[Lutrova]

It's been a minute. What's been going on? Let me tell you:

1. Trip to Michigan

Last summer's road trip to northern Michigan went off without a hitch. 1,700 miles with an average 18.1 mpg. The Lincoln did a little better than that on the highway, except for a stretch up to Mackinac where the speed limit is 75(?) and driving through the Appalachians. Overall I was pleased with the performance. After hiccups on its last two big road trips, this was redemption for the car and its reliability as a daily driver.

It was also great meeting Kishy for lunch. I had never been to Detroit before, and while there was a lot there that met my expectations, there was even more that had me wanting to look around more next time I'm in town. Northern Michigan, on the other hand, I've probably seen enough of.



We made full use of the trunk space. Strollers are not easy to tetris.

2. Minivan, Travel

Unfortunately, the Town Car likely won't see another road trip for awhile, as after eight years of service, my wife replaced her Honda Fit with a 2020 Odyssey in early August. (There was some nominative determinism here - we share our surname with the Greek poet.) The following month we embarked on an odyssey of our own, driving the van to Minnesota by way of San Antonio, then returning in early December with a U-Haul trailer full of furniture.

Minivans, as it turns out, are pretty cool. A wagon would be cooler, but the current crop of vans have a lot of bells and whistles. And the Odyssey is quick, at least by '80s luxo-barge standards. It's the first car I've owned where I can chirp the tires coming off a dead stop. Fuel economy is better than the Town Car, but not radically so. Reliability remains to be seen. I have my doubts the electronics will still be going in 20 years, but if they are I'll happily drive this thing until the wheels fall off.



3. Return to the Road

While I normally avoid driving when the roads are salted, the loss of the blower motor on the way back from buying the Odyssey meant that I didn't end up driving the Lincoln at all this past winter. It wasn't until the start of March when temperatures rose enough to get me back in the garage to do the job. And replacing the blower motor wasn't much trouble. But then, as I posted in the 'What are you working on' thread, I reversed the battery cables and thought I'd fried something.

Turns out, after pulling every fuse and checking every fusible link, nothing had blown and after jumping the battery (which was new) the car fired right up. Still, I had no power locks, power seats, no AC, and a few other things. So I returned to the fuse panel, this time with the owner's manual in hand. Lo and behold, two fuses were missing. Where did they go? I haven't a clue. Maybe the raccoons got them. Or I did it, but I have no recollection of doing so nor can I think of why I might've pulled them.



At any rate, once all fuses were in place the car drove as well as it ever has, hauling the kids and myself around the greater DMV.

4. Wet Sanding

I believe it was about a year ago that I threatened to wet sand the heavy orange peel covering 90% of the body. Well, a couple weeks ago I finally took action. The catalyst was a $20 paint thickness gauge on Amazon that showed I had 12-15 mils to work with (and what looks to be a ton of body filler on the left quarter panel.) It's been slow going as I'm still working out the process on small areas before taking on entire panels. Right now I'm using 1500 and 2500 grit damp over foam blocks, followed by M105 and (eventually) M205 on the DA. I'll have to compound by hand in tight spots, but it takes forever to get the sanding marks out this way.



Existing texture. I've got some touch up paint for where the badge adhesive put up a fight.



And after, although I still have to polish.

5. Current State

The AC is weak. Not sure whether something's wrong or if this is just the way it is now, but outside temps were in the mid 70s and air at the vents was pretty underwhelming.

Everything feels a little worn, not as solid as it should. Door jambs are faded, hinges sag, door cards are cracking and not staying attached to the doors, speakers crackle or have died, one of the grab handles in the back has come loose, the seat bolster foam is weak, the HVAC has a vacuum leak somewhere behind the dash, and there's an exhaust or evap leak that occasionally makes its way into the cabin. Not to mention all the electrical gremlins I've been chasing the past five years.

Mechanically a lot has been sorted, but in touch and feel there's dozens of little things that add up to remind me this car is nearly 40 years old.

[87gtVIC]

When wet sanding what color was the residue.. black or white?


looking like a great job.

[Lutrova]

Black. Far as I can tell, the factory black was still single stage in '87, and the cheap respray certainly was. I'm hoping the combination means I have a wide margin for error. And if not, it'll just be another lesson learned.

[Arquemann]

Everything feels a little worn, not as solid as it should. Door jambs are faded, hinges sag, door cards are cracking and not staying attached to the doors, speakers crackle or have died, one of the grab handles in the back has come loose, the seat bolster foam is weak, the HVAC has a vacuum leak somewhere behind the dash, and there's an exhaust or evap leak that occasionally makes its way into the cabin. Not to mention all the electrical gremlins I've been chasing the past five years.

Mechanically a lot has been sorted, but in touch and feel there's dozens of little things that add up to remind me this car is nearly 40 years old.

Constantly falling apart is a state of mind when talking about old cars. Your list only gets shorter or longer.

And fixing all those things slowly over time is what really makes the car yours. Atleast your car doesn't look like it's about to fall apart as much it might be doing. Prioritise the most annoying things, or maybe the most annoying things to fix.

Funny to think an american family man needs to choose between a minivan or an SUV. Wagons are king and minivans are the last resort (in my eyes). When I was a kid my family did alot of roadtrips in a Merc CLK and a Volvo S40 when cars seats were no longer needed.

Homer's Odyssey is quite amusing. Though it took me a while to get as I wasn't familiar with the anglicisation in this case.

[VicCrownVic]

I was busy or moving when you made that trip to MI so I didn't reply when you mentioned you would be in the area. Yes, the speed limit on I75 north of Bay City/Kawkawlin area is 75MPH.
I'm not as close to Detroit as I used to be, I'm now about 60 miles north vs 20ish before I moved, but if I'm not busy I can meet somewhere, or my place has plenty of room for cars if you don't mind an hour (one way) detour from I75 or Detroit and 60-70 yards of dirt road driving.

[DerekTheGreat]

Constantly falling apart is a state of mind when talking about old cars. Your list only gets shorter or longer.

And fixing all those things slowly over time is what really makes the car yours. Atleast your car doesn't look like it's about to fall apart as much it might be doing. Prioritise the most annoying things, or maybe the most annoying things to fix.

Funny to think an american family man needs to choose between a minivan or an SUV. Wagons are king and minivans are the last resort (in my eyes). When I was a kid my family did alot of roadtrips in a Merc CLK and a Volvo S40 when cars seats were no longer needed...

Indeed. Everything with our old stuff (Our latest is a 2002) is routine or as it is needed type of maintenance. Other stuff is purely elective. My Town Car currently needs a fuel pump, I think. Haven't even bothered to check fuel pressure, but I will now that the weather has turned. However, once that happens I'll drive it anywhere without hesitation as I always have. The only way someone could get me in something made within the last fifteen years or so was if they paid me to drive said thing. When we were tater tots, my mom and dad both had two door cars. Dad never changed that up until recently as pretty much everything sold today is only available in four door flavor unless sports car and as he doesn't do old cars. Well, except for his "sports car" which is a 1999. They've got a late model and a new car, yet all they do is bitch about them both, between saying how much they like them, which I'd think is necessary given how much they are paying for 'em. Although, I've noticed there's more bitching than praise... We haul our tater tots around in a 2002 Tahoe. I like that GMT800 platform so much, I'm actually looking forward to giving our eldest my '89 K1500 so I can buy it's GMT800 doppleganger. We do most road trips in the Town Car, our tots love riding in that and it's my goal to get them around those cars as much as possible so they embrace 'em like I do.

I was busy or moving when you made that trip to MI so I didn't reply when you mentioned you would be in the area...

I must've been too. I'd have liked to get my '88 alongside his '87. I've always wanted a digidash LTC..

[Lutrova]

I'm actually heading to Lansing next weekend; my brother-in-law is graduating from Michigan State. Current plan is to drive out on Wednesday and do some sightseeing in Detroit Thursday and Friday. Unfortunately, we won't be taking the Town Car. We will, however, be returning to Lansing in late June for a wedding, so perhaps I could make the case for using the Lincoln then.

Funny to think an american family man needs to choose between a minivan or an SUV. Wagons are king and minivans are the last resort (in my eyes). When I was a kid my family did alot of roadtrips in a Merc CLK and a Volvo S40 when cars seats were no longer needed.

If only wagons were still a thing here. I'd happily find another Roadmaster wagon, but at the end of the day the Odyssey is my wife's car. It took some doing to talk her out of a midsize crossover, but when it comes to hauling small children there really is no comparison. I think she also appreciates that the van still sits higher.

In today's news, I discovered the AC has been lackluster because the compressor isn't turning on. This time the fuse is still present, and intact. So that just leaves everything else.

[DerekTheGreat]

I'm actually heading to Lansing next weekend; my brother-in-law is graduating from Michigan State. Current plan is to drive out on Wednesday and do some sightseeing in Detroit Thursday and Friday. Unfortunately, we won't be taking the Town Car. We will, however, be returning to Lansing in late June for a wedding, so perhaps I could make the case for using the Lincoln then...

Box Lincoln and Cadillacs look great in wedding photos, especially black ones.

...If only wagons were still a thing here. I'd happily find another Roadmaster wagon, but at the end of the day the Odyssey is my wife's car. It took some doing to talk her out of a midsize crossover, but when it comes to hauling small children there really is no comparison. I think she also appreciates that the van still sits higher...

I disagree, the Tahoe (or simply, a Tahoe or anything GMT800) is a great family hauler, superior to a minivan in multiple ways. V8 torque and reliability, ease of service, 4x4, body on frame construction and a class IV hitch. Parts are dirt cheap too. Ours is closing in on 300k miles. We picked my old man up from the airport in it the other day, even he remarked how comfortable and quiet it was. He couldn't believe it has as many miles on it as it does. He's one of those who thinks cars are done around 100k miles. My wife came into my life with her Tahoe. If I had it my way, she'd drive older junk like I do, preferably a four-door sedan. Logic stemming from my childhood, really. I like the turds I drive because that's what we rode around in and what I was exposed to. However, given how "blah" modern cars are, it's no wonder kids don't have any interest in being gearheads. I think of the Tahoe as "blah." I think the color code is "meh" straight from the factory too. I'd prefer our kids get exposure to the old stuff on a daily basis, but the Tahoe was already here, reliable with service history and from Arizona, so it has stayed. The tater tots never say anything about it, other than our eldest who asked if it was the most durable car in our fleet. "No, that would be my truck " However, they get ultra giddy whenever they ride in the Firebird or Camaro. Our youngest adores 'Lil Red, our '93 F-150 and our eldest is enthralled with the Town Car, right down to the fabric on the seats, says it's the type of car she'd imagine royalty would ride around in or that they'd make limos out of. "Why yes, they did make limos out of these.."

...In today's news, I discovered the AC has been lackluster because the compressor isn't turning on. This time the fuse is still present, and intact. So that just leaves everything else.

Has it already been converted to 134a?

[Arquemann]

I disagree, the Tahoe (or simply, a Tahoe or anything GMT800) is a great family hauler, superior to a minivan in multiple ways. V8 torque and reliability, ease of service, 4x4, body on frame construction and a class IV hitch. Parts are dirt cheap too.

I'll disagree too! A couple counterpoints for shits and giggles:
A minivan handles much better, they're not nearly as clumsy and large to maneuver, easier to park and fit in spots. A lot lighter and more fuel-efficient. Easier to get into a minivan, also a 3rd row is much easier to access. Interior space is probably quite comparable. 4WD and heavy towing isn't on everyone's need list.

And that V6 Odyssey will definitely whoop the ass of a 20 year old Tahoe

[DerekTheGreat]

Ok, I'll bite.

My wife got her Tahoe for free. However, I'm sure we could snatch another one with half the mileage (Not that I really care about that) for ~$6,500 or so out west. A 2025 Odyssey has an MSRP of ~$42k USD according to Google. There are several for sale around here near $50k USD. That difference will buy a lot of gas, so I couldn't care less about what either vehicle does on paper as I'm not about to spend tens of thousands just to get one that does just 8mpg better on the expressway and 4 better in the city at the expense of some complex ten speed automatic. No way you're getting 300k trouble free miles out of one of those. Earlier models had tons of problems with those transmissions as it is. Worth noting she'd spend less on gas per month than she would spend on the payment for that thing alone. Don't even get me started on the additional insurance costs that come with owning a new vehicle.

It's a V6. Those sound like ass to me. Must have V8 rumble.

The Tahoe's wheel base is 2.1" shorter than the Odyssey's. As a result, the turning radius between both is negligible given the price difference. I or my wife have never had a problem getting it anywhere.

Handling? That's what sports cars are for, although the Tahoe has taken the on ramps around here at 60-70mph no problem. It's rather comical as some have two lanes and I use the outside one to breeze past tiny sedans.

Performance? The speed limit is 70mph where I live. The Tahoe is more than capable of attaining that speed limit. However, for sake of argument, the Tahoe has more torque than the Odyssey. I'm sure if both weren't speed limited, the Tahoe would catch it past 70 mph and pass it.

"4WD and heavy towing isn't on everyone's need list." Neither are minivans, fuel efficiency and performance. 4WD is a necessity for us. Now that I and she have had one, we won't go without. GM's set-up is quite reliable not much more maintenance to keep going. This is coming from one really lazy bastard. That Tahoe has never left either of us stranded.

[Arquemann]

Ok, I'll bite.

My wife got her Tahoe for free. However, I'm sure we could snatch another one with half the mileage (Not that I really care about that) for ~$6,500 or so out west. A 2025 Odyssey has an MSRP of ~$42k USD according to Google. There are several for sale around here near $50k USD. That difference will buy a lot of gas, so I couldn't care less about what either vehicle does on paper as I'm not about to spend tens of thousands just to get one that does just 8mpg better on the expressway and 4 better in the city at the expense of some complex ten speed automatic. No way you're getting 300k trouble free miles out of one of those. Earlier models had tons of problems with those transmissions as it is. Worth noting she'd spend less on gas per month than she would spend on the payment for that thing alone. Don't even get me started on the additional insurance costs that come with owning a new vehicle.

It's a V6. Those sound like ass to me. Must have V8 rumble.

The Tahoe's wheel base is 2.1" shorter than the Odyssey's. As a result, the turning radius between both is negligible given the price difference. I or my wife have never had a problem getting it anywhere.

Handling? That's what sports cars are for, although the Tahoe has taken the on ramps around here at 60-70mph no problem. It's rather comical as some have two lanes and I use the outside one to breeze past tiny sedans.

Performance? The speed limit is 70mph where I live. The Tahoe is more than capable of attaining that speed limit. However, for sake of argument, the Tahoe has more torque than the Odyssey. I'm sure if both weren't speed limited, the Tahoe would catch it past 70 mph and pass it.

"4WD and heavy towing isn't on everyone's need list." Neither are minivans, fuel efficiency and performance. 4WD is a necessity for us. Now that I and she have had one, we won't go without. GM's set-up is quite reliable not much more maintenance to keep going. This is coming from one really lazy bastard. That Tahoe has never left either of us stranded.

It wasn't even bait and you bit anyways. I was just pointing out objective differences.

I'm not going to comment on perceived reliability, new-vs, cheap-vs-expensive or diy-vs-shop arguments. Humans have been paying for varying levels of convenience since the dawn of time.

You on the other hand laid all almost exclusively subjective matters.

You need 4WD, well... For whatever personal choices have lead you to such a situation. More than "duh, it's winter".

There is no objective downside to fuel efficiency, barely any point to performance above a certain level, and a lighter and more maneuverable modern car is objectively safer, unless you're going head to head against a semi truck.

The more you drive, the more that 4 mpg saves you. Though I put more weight on this as where I am fuel is fucking expensive.

The Odyssey has a turning radius over 3ft smaller than a Tahoe. Its not just about wheelbase.

Minivans are the epitome of practicality, modern marketing really wants you to think that it's actually SUVs, even though most of them offer just a fake sense of capability and ruggedness with the cost of fuel efficiency and unnecessary size.

No offense intended, tried to be objective here.
Somewhere out there, there's a Toyota Yaris driver that thinks we're all complete idiots for driving 80's luxury barges. Gas guzzling, no power, poor quality impractical hunks of wasted space. And not even 4WD!