Stick-shift conversion?

[ss_mini14]

i worked on an '87 ranger 2.3l years ago that had a hydraulic clutch but the throwout bearing itself was the save cylinder, no pushrod or lever or anything.

if it were me i wouldn't put a 5 speed in my wagon. i'd have a stout C6 with a gear vender overdrive if i did it my way.

[CheeseSteakJim]

Yes, because the Town Car transmission's output shaft is longer you will need to either use a custom drive shaft, or make/get a driveshaft spacer to make up for the needed extra length.

An aluminum flywheel is lighter that stock (usually more than 50% which is roughly 10-15lbs less). Less mass in the rotating assembly of the engine lets the engine rev faster. However, for a big car or heavy load a heavier flywheel makes it easier to engage without stalling. I don't know if you have ever been to a road course with highly modified P1 and P2 Corvettes, but those things are really hard to start without stalling. As somewhat of a reference those 700hp cars with experienced drivers commonly stall in the pits.

I don't mean to bring back an old topic solely to (partially) refute you, but I asked my boss (who raced a couple ridiculously modified MGBs in I believe SCCA for many years) his experience with aluminum flywheels, and how much more difficult is it to start from a stop with one, because I am still seriously considering one. He has had a few race cars with them in them and he said that it does not affect the difficulty of starting off at all. He said the difficulty in a racing application comes from the different clutch materials (sintered brass, for instance) that are required in order to handle the demands of a high horsepower/high RPM application such as racing. These sorts of materials last quite a bit longer than the clutch materials used in stock, street-driven vehicles but their operation is more ON-OFF than the comparatively gradual slip of a stock clutch. As he put it, with those sorts of clutches in a racecar you basically have to rev the shit out of a car while VERY carefully letting off the clutch to get the car moving. It requires the driver to be MUCH more precise in his engagement of the clutch, which may explain why a driver in a hurry (as one would be in a race) might accidentally stall the car without thinking it.

[CheeseSteakJim]

Stupid forum won't let me edit my post... had more to add.

As my transmission slowly begins to slip (lol get it?) into death, I'm constantly thinking about this conversion. I handled an '02 Mustang GT's cable-operated clutch on Tuesday and while it is ridiculously stiff compared to the hydraulic clutches I'm more used to, I think that by exercising my knee and keeping it in good shape I can deal with a cable clutch. Even so, I am still keeping my mind open as to the possibility of a hydraulic T5 if I can find one. Does anyone know which years Rangers, T-birds, and Cougars had these? Are the gear ratios any different between any of them and the Mustang T5's? The Mustang T5's OD ratio is too low for me. From what I've read it's .68, and I'd like something closer to .50 for lower RPM cruising at 75 with 3.55's or possibly 3.73's.

Since Rangers never came with V8s, is its T5 able to stand up to a HO V8's load? Do they shift harder than a car T5?

[Nathan in MI]

I don't think you're going to find a 0.5 OD in a T5. Deepest OD I know of is 0.68.

Also, Rangers didn't use T5s--it's a different transmission that's fairly weak from what I understand.

[CheeseSteakJim]

My point was that if I could find an application that had a T5 with a deeper OD than .68 then that's what I want. If one wasn't available from the factory, then I'll have to investigate other possibilities.

[mrltd]

Well, lightwieght flywheels are pretty pointless on a 4000lb car. Sure, you can use one, put with any car, you need to slip the clutch more because the flywheel's mass isn't helping to keep the engine spinning while you are loading it....

[gadget73]

If you have a serious enough motor and a light enough car, then no the lightweight flywheel doesn't matter all that much. If you're trying to move 2 tons with a 302, then you want that extra rotational mass.

[CheeseSteakJim]

Yeah, I can see what you mean when it comes to a heavy damn car with not enough motor - like a Panther.

Out of curiousity, with all this in mind, Blaze, why do you personally wish you had gotten an aluminum flywheel?

[turbo2256b]

I have looked into using a hyd clutch .Problem was were to put it. I have one setup out of a stock car. There isnt much room to mout it under the dash or on the firewall. The cable setup takes a lot less room.

Also on the stiff cable deal it might need a new cablee or the bushings on the clutch pedal shaft might be worn.

[Archangel]

Speaking of hydraulic clutches, how do you bleed those? I got an F150 downed here, clutch reservoir is bone dry, and pedal don't feel like tis doing much of anything, I haven't crawled under yet but I place my bets on the no fluid thing - is the system pretty much like brakes, with the open-floor-close-lift bleeder-pedal action? Also does it use regular brake fluid?

[Blaze86Vic]

Yeah, I can see what you mean when it comes to a heavy damn car with not enough motor - like a Panther.

Out of curiousity, with all this in mind, Blaze, why do you personally wish you had gotten an aluminum flywheel?

I'll answer that question in just a sec...it does get harder with the race clutches because it does get harder to slip the clutch with as grabby as it is. However, having all the mass in a heavy steel fly wheel helps you slip more, making shifting smoother and taking off from a start slowly easier. Lighter fly wheels with the same clutch material are harder to take off with (and I'm not talking about launches as that's a whole different topic, we are talking about just try to get to work without breaking you neck). Once the clutch is engaged, the extra mass of a heavy flywheel only takes away from performance. Your engine has to fight that mass on two fronts. Not only does it have to push those extra 20lbs down the track, but it also has to spin it up which takes significantly more energy.

I want one because for the most part I don't have much problem with it, racier clutch material takes a lot more before they get burnt, and I have a performance taste. Most people like their cars to be pretty smooth, and I do as well. But I don't do well with compromise. If I want something to go fast, by golly it's going to do that. No cushy shifts or pansy clutch pedals are going to get in my way. I like to spin tires (and I do so way more than most people ever even wish to), and I really love the way an engine with a real lite fly wheels sounds when you rev it. Going through the revs that fast just sounds awesome.

[gadget73]

Speaking of hydraulic clutches, how do you bleed those? I got an F150 downed here, clutch reservoir is bone dry, and pedal don't feel like tis doing much of anything, I haven't crawled under yet but I place my bets on the no fluid thing - is the system pretty much like brakes, with the open-floor-close-lift bleeder-pedal action? Also does it use regular brake fluid?

Gravity bleed it first, once you get fluid dripping out the bleeder, do like you would with a brake pedal and it should be OK. Fluid depends on the system, usually brake fluid but I've actually seen some use ATF, and my friend had a Datsun that used vegetable oil believe it or not. It should say on the reservoir cap what to put in there.

[turbo2256b]

Speaking of hydraulic clutches, how do you bleed those? I got an F150 downed here, clutch reservoir is bone dry, and pedal don't feel like tis doing much of anything, I haven't crawled under yet but I place my bets on the no fluid thing - is the system pretty much like brakes, with the open-floor-close-lift bleeder-pedal action? Also does it use regular brake fluid?

Most of the time it takes 2 people to blead a bone dry hyd clutch system. One has to work the pedal, the other has to blead the lower and pry back and forth on the clutch fork to get the system to suck in some fluid in the slave cyl.

[turbo2256b]

What weight flywheel?
Heavy flywheels:
Increases engine life by smoothing out pulsing between combustion events.
For drag racing they store energy which helps launch the vehicle off the line.
Best for heavy or medium weight cars with
smaller engines.
There are also special increased mass flywheels that due to there design increase mass without increasing weight. IE a 30 lb one might react more like a 40 lb one.

Aluminum flywheels:
Best for quicker shifting usually used in road racing,
Circle track, etc
Drags usually in high powered high reving light cars or when quicker reving is needed.

Compitition clutches hard to ease off the line:
Comp pressure plates are usually not diaphram
units they have lighter pedal feel, are prone to
calapsing at high RPMs but produce the smoothest
launch
Race units are either Borg & Beck or Long units.
One uses high spring pressure (hard to push grabs
the hardest off the line).
other uses lighter spring pressure with weights
that increases the holding power as the RPM
increases.
There are also some hybread versions of all therse
units like the slipper clutches used on high powered
drrag cars. Diaphram clutches with centrifical weights and others.

Clutch discs:
Basicly 2 types dampened and undampened.
The dampened ones have springs in the hub to
smooth engagement and reduce clutch chatter.
The undampened hub grabs quicker harder and is
usually concidered race only part.
Also different materials grab harder / quicker than
others.

Hardest to ease off the line undampene cluth hub with a spring pressure only pressure plate.

[CheeseSteakJim]

I like to spin tires (and I do so way more than most people ever even wish to), and I really love the way an engine with a real lite fly wheels sounds when you rev it. Going through the revs that fast just sounds awesome.

Those are actually the two main reasons (the sound being the more important one to me) that I'm thinking about one. If I'm going to do all this shit, it's going to be done exactly how I want it the first time so I'm not dissatisfied with anything, with the exception of using a T5 which is a compromise that I'll have to live with. I always explicitly hated how slowly my car reved, so this is a good solution to me. I can get used to it being a little tougher to take off with... if nothing else, it'll further distance the car from other everyday daily drivers - and it'll make it more difficult for my friends to attempt to my drive my car. I tend to unintentionally drive stick-shift vehicles like I'm road-racing anyway, with rev-matching, double clutching, quick shifts, and heavy engine braking... I'm sure my boss loves how I drive the delivery trucks.