1987cp's new '81 LTD 2-door

[1987cp]

Its second nature. I never have to think about what my extremities are doing when I am driving a stick shift (which is every day). You get so used to it that is just happens.

Sounds right. When I finally got so I was smooth and reliable with the Suzuki, my mental trick was to think about my left foot performing the job of a torque converter. Yep, the women-folks thought I was completely bonkers, but couldn't deny that I'd quit stalling the thing 4 times out of 5.

I have become so accustomed to the Dodge, that I can take off from a stop smoothly without touching the gas.

Several years ago I took a Mustang II King Cobra (302-2V/SROD) around the block to make sure it stopped, and noticed that I had relatively little trouble despite my lack of skill. (This was years before the Suzuki experiments, and my only experience prior had been a rather harrowing test drive in an '86 Prelude.) In retrospect, I think this was attributable to a combination of the 302's superior low-end torque characteristics (especially compared to the amazingly weak Suzuki engine) and gearing closer to what I've always been used to from a 3.27 geared automatic car. I can easily imagine that with a torquey engine and a little delicacy with the left foot, it could indeed be possible to pull away without touching the gas. Not so on that awful little Suzuki, though! I tried taking off in Second once or twice, thinking that'd save some trouble since First buzzed through the revs by 15mph, but no luck, the dumb thing just died and thumbed its nose at me. Yep, that car had a 25,000:1 initial drive ratio for a reason.

Once you have driven one for a while, you start to experiment with rev matching shifts, shifting without the clutch, double clutching, etc, to find out what delivers the smoothest shift.

Interestingly, I found it really easy to figure out how to match revs whilst downshifting. The vehicle's owner, on the other hand, NEVER matched revs, at least while I was in the car (and getting thoroughly sloshed around as a result), despite decades of experience driving FWD/stick cars. Maybe some poeple actually like getting sloshed around and letting the synchros do all the work?

That would be a nice project Michael, but does not make sense when you have an AOD around to drop in.

Quite. I was just looking at governor and valvebody combos ... Summit has the HIREV governor kit for a whole $25, and a SilverFox SPT-R valvebody is $300. Even adding in some odds and ends, that's around $350ish as a starting point for what ought to produce what I'd consider a relatively exotic AOD setup (compared to what I have experience with, anyway). And obviously, making do with the stock valvebody knocks $300 off that total. Looks like it'd be a crapshoot whether I could even score a good T5, etc. for that $350ish price, let alone the clutch, linkages, shifter, and possible driveshaft yoke swappage. The extra $300 is hardly worthwhile for a get-the-car-mobile-again project, but after years of putting up with automatics of the never-shift-when-or-how-you-want-them-to variety, it'd be *awfully* nice to have one configured more decently for a change.

[87gtVIC]

You have a link to that summit kit? Cheap enough to get me interested lol.

EDIT: I found it. Surprisingly it was easy to find. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRG-AOD-HIREV/

[1987cp]

I have a bad feeling my mom may have Neutral-slammed the guts out of this thing. Makes sense, as the previous day she was sitting in the driveway with her foot halfway to the floor, and I had to open the door and shout to alert her to the fact. She's never been one to intentionally do something crazy with cars, but if she really couldn't hear that the engine was racing to the wazoo ....

Guess I'd best call State Farm today and cancel my liability insurance on this car, as I doubt it'll be going anywhere for at least a couple of months.

[torquelover]

I have a bad feeling my mom may have Neutral-slammed the guts out of this thing. Makes sense, as the previous day she was sitting in the driveway with her foot halfway to the floor, and I had to open the door and shout to alert her to the fact. She's never been one to intentionally do something crazy with cars, but if she really couldn't hear that the engine was racing to the wazoo ....

If you put in a tach, would she pay any attention to it? Good way to get someone killed. Might not want your Wife or little boy anywhere near the car when she's coming or going.

Would you consider a newer engine/trans swap? EFI and electronically controlled auto? All kinds of drivetrains for sale cheap out here on the local Mustang forums. Some Termi setups, too, if you wanted to go totally insane.

[1987cp]

Tach occurred to me, but I found that she hadn't been paying attention to the temp gauge on the Vic, which had been running warmer than I like since the cold weather was keeping my thermal switch colder. Maybe if I put the big AutoGage up on the column where you had it .... maybe...

Since this engine seems quite decent for how basic it is (kind of like another dead-simple engine we've had fun driving behind), I think keeping it super-simple, and as cheap as I can manage, is key.

[1987cp]

"New" transmission is in!

Wow, it's been a long time since I posted in this thread! As of today, the '81 is officially back on the road! I yanked the old transmission on Tuesday and got the "new" one physically in place, spent a bunch of time yesterday hooking things up, and today I installed the driveshaft and TV cable (and fabricated a little bracket for it) and added about 9 or 10 quarts of ATF.

Annoyances included ending up with a goodly bit of spillage when I'd blindly assumed I'd have to add 12 quarts of DexMerc, and it started overflowing partway through the third gallon, and then when I took it for an initial drive around the block, it wouldn't shift! But tonight I took it WOT on a nearby road with a higher-than-25mph speed limit, and it condescended to shift into Second and then Third, after which it shifted into Second probably 70% of the time during a little low-speed tootling, so I'm thinking it's going to loosen itself up and be okay.

:banana:

[sly]

you may need to change the filter soon as there may be lots of lacquered up crap loosing it's coating.

[1987cp]

That'd be annoying. But I guess it'd be less trouble to check on it in a while than to have real problems later on! This transmission's still nearly new as far as usage - I had it built for me in '04, but I doubt it has much more than 5000 miles on it.

[85crownHPP]

'bout time!!!!

[1987cp]

Stupid annoyingness ... developed a crazy noise/vibration problem after taking it for a drive yesterday noonish. Posted on ClickClick and though I didn't directly ask it, Dan confirmed that 99% of imbalance problems are the flexplate or converter. I do have another converter I could toss in, and there are worse things in life than having to jerk the transmission again. Still, really annoying that I couldn't in good faith drive it to church last night - when I'd been somewhat anxious to get it done before the church kids' club started up for the fall!

[1987cp]

Dead in the water, again?

Yay, I'm starting to suspect that the engine has somehow self-immolated, though in a way that causes a horrid vibration only at idle. Wonder how that could work? Anyway, I tried a different torque converter and a brandy-new harmonic balancer (the flexplate checked out fine), and the vibration is still there, so I guess this car is unofficially off the road again.

I've been having the lousiest luck with this silly car!

On the bright side, it occurred to me that I could try starting the engine with no transmission attached (using my C4 bellhousing to bolt the starter to), and if it STILL jiggles and shakes I'll at least know I can stick the transmission in the P72 with confidence!

[1987cp]

Tried the bellhousing-only test. Noticed less vibration, but then, some vibration was probably damped by having the frame resting on four jackstands. Still have the funny noise. Weirdly, the noise does sound (to my limited knowledge) somewhat like the flexplate weight hitting the starter snout, but I can't imagine why a flexplate shim would suddenly become necessary while the car is operating. I also can't imagine what could have happened to the bottom end that could result in a clunky vibration that seems to smooth out as the engine revs! Still, I'm getting shockingly good at removing and reinstalling an AOD, which means I can probably pop the tranny in the P72 before noon tomorrow and give it a go!

[gadget73]

Pull the starter and see if there is evidence of things hitting. Could be the starter bendix drive isn't pulling the gear back all the way and its catching randomly. I'm also assuming the starter is tight, they have a habit of getting loose and shifting around some.

[1987cp]

Dash it, you're right, I didn't bother looking at the starter. I've got one or two extras I can try, too. I suppose a random pinion-catching could easily account for the noise I'm hearing! Too bad the flexplate already had some light tooth damage dating from ages past.

Not sure how the starter could "shift around" when securely located in the separator-plate hole and bolted down tight .... still, any solution that doesn't involve the crankshaft is simpler to deal with than a solution that does involve the crankshaft!

[1987cp]

Very interesting. I just pulled the starter and discovered curious wear marks on the pinion teeth, and corresponding sharp, bright spots on the flexplate teeth!


The bad news is that putting in my spare starter didn't make any difference.


So ..... if my whole problem is in fact the pinion hitting the flexplate (something that appears to be happening anyway, whatever its reason), either:

a) I really do need a flexplate shim ($20 at AZ, but I can probably check salvage sources),
b) I need to space the starter forward somehow (seems I've seen spacers for that purpose),
or
c) The flexplate itself has somehow gone bad in such a way as to still look OK but yet still flops into the starter pinion despite all six bolts appearing to still be tight! (nearby full-serve yard has flexplates for $20)