Another new guy

[TreySC]

Wanted to take a minute and introduce myself. I'm Trey and live in Columbia, SC. I've been driving an '03 MGM for the last couple years and love it. Unfortunately I got in a wreck the other day. Car drives fine, but it is missing a head light and half the grill, buckled the fender and hood pretty good can't open the drivers side door. Body shop quoted 4 to 5 grand assuming there is no hidden damage once he gets into it, just put new tires on the damn thing too. Needless to say I'm looking for another one ran across an '05 on CL with 132K miles.

I have a couple questions about the '05 if that's ok. Does the "05 have the same headlight/LCM issues as the '03, and if so are they the same LCM? Also it i s the ultimate edition they guy said it has the original air ride if that is true any idea on how much life is left in it?


Thanks in advance for the help.

[mercurygm88]

Not sure what all years had the LCM issues, but I believe that after a certain year the new LCM has to be programmed by a dealer. As far as the air suspension goes 10 years seems to be about the average life on the air springs before they dry rot and crack. My '01 Town Car had been converted to coils when I bought it and I converted back to air springs back in June. I got two Arnott air springs off of eBay for $150, and a new dryer for the air compressor for $50. My Grandfather has Westar air springs which are much cheaper (about $100 a pair) in his '97, he put them in back in '08 and they've been fine ever since. Me personally I spent a little more $$ to have a fairly well known brand. Personally I wouldn't convert to coil springs unless you absolutely have to, some people say you can't tell a difference in the ride, but I sure as hell could, much better with the air springs. Plus the auto level feature is nice if you tend you carry heavy things and or people in the car.

[IPreferDIY]

Welcome! Of course questions are okay. That's what we're here for.

Sorry to hear about your '03. That really sucks. I know that year had soft rear axles, but replacing them would've been a very minor thing in comparison.

Personally, I'd be inclined to avoid an '05 unless it was a really good deal. From what I've read, I think that was the first year they went to "drive by wire", and they apparently needed time to work the bugs out. It's also the only year with an antennae sticking out of the ass end (on the passenger side). I think the LCM issue was 03-05, at least for getting it replaced under a recall. One way to help save your LCM for any model year is to install a headlight relay harness so the power going through the regular headlight circuit is only used to trigger relays that supply the main power to the lights directly.

The air ride largely depends on environment. In a hot climate, dry rot is an issue, and the air springs develop cracks at the bottom. The solenoids at the air springs have o-rings that can dry out too. Mine are still fine after 15 years. Replacing that stuff isn't really a big deal. The compressor can theoretically last a lifetime if not subjected to prolonged use from leaks. It has a dryer to keep the moisture out, and that can be renewed by taking out the beads and baking them in an oven at low heat to cook the accumulated moisture out of them.

More knowledgeable people will probably clarify and add things.

[TreySC]

I did think the antennae was odd, didn't realize that was the only year they did that. He's asking $3900 I figured if I could get it closer to $3000 it would be a good deal. Didn't know about the "drive by wire" thing either. I don't really want to get into something that will be major problems down the road.

I was asking about the LCM since I just replaced mine with one of the refurbs from e-bay, figured I would just swap them out if they are the same.

[sly]

no clue if the LCM is the same 03 to 05, but I know for a fact that all 01 or 02+ LCMs have the dying relays issue. There's threads out there on how to replace the fried relays with regular Bosch style (the normal 5-lug automotive type) relays. So even if the 05 has the issue, if you can solder, you can fix the LCM in most cases.

[GM_Guy]

Check rockauto and tasca parts and lookup the lcm for your 03, you will find a compatability list. Connectors apparently changed at some point on the lcm, so that'll determine what will or won't work without modification.

Alex.

[VicCrownVic]

Welcome!

Like these guys said, questions are no problem. Of course since I know next to nothing about such new cars I can't answer your questions, I'll leave that to the guys that know what they're talking about.

[sly]

checked rock auto... they had the motorcraft part listed for $130.79 + $50 core on the 03...
FORD CROWN VICTORIA (2007 - 2011)
MERCURY GRAND MARQUIS (2003 - 2004)

no 05's listed. So it's a no-go on the crossover.

and a quick check of 2005 says that ONLY 2005 used the LCM it uses... so it has a unicorn part. But both CV and MGM for 05 used that part.

[TreySC]

Thanks Sly. I think that gives me another reason to rule out the '05.

To you guys with the boxes, what kind of mileage are you getting out of the 5.0 in those beast? I did see a clean looking 87 LTD

[VicCrownVic]

Mileage for the 5.0 in a box varies depending how the car is setup and who you talk to.
City driving I might get 17MPG at best, long haul 21MPG is what I normally see. I got more out of my '89 MGM once on a long trip, 5 hours with no stops and 55-60 MPH.
My '91 MGM has 2.73 rear gear and my '89 has 3.08. My '88 Country Squire I have no idea what it had for rear gear ratio but it pulled the same mileage maybe even a slight bit better on a regular basis.

[TreySC]

17 mpg isn't bad I'm assuming that's babying it though. Did they have different rear ends with different model years or are those mods you've done. I would think this one is stock guy says it was his grandparents car.

[sly]

Boxes: as a general rule... about 17-18 combined. You'll be looking at 14-15 around town, and up to 22-23 hwy if you keep it below 60. Tow package cars will get lower highway by 2-3 mpg and same or +1 in town. This is a general rule though. There are exceptions. There's some folks that get upwards of 25-26 in their boxen. They are few and far between though.

Typical rears are 2.73/3.08 open for most cars. Tow packages and HPP typically got 3.27/3.55 open with an option for limited slip. Police vehicles could have anything depending on how the department specced them.

[knucklehead0202]

Fuel economy in boxes is one of those "your experience may vary" kinda things. Some guys get up to 30mpg out of them, although I've never been that close. Not doing much freeway driving, I usually average 15-18. However, did take a little road trip over the weekend, came back and commuted to work for a couple days, and my average was about 23. When I had my '98, it seemed to do notably better but it also held more fuel than the box. The newer cars do have their advantages in some ways, but I like the torque of the pushrod motors, the style and class of the older cars, and the ease of repair as well.

[VicCrownVic]

17 mpg isn't bad I'm assuming that's babying it though. Did they have different rear ends with different model years or are those mods you've done. I would think this one is stock guy says it was his grandparents car.

For city driving I'm stuck going with the flow, but 15-17 is what I normally get. I don't really try to baby it unlike when my Yukon was on the road. I tried babying that thing and managed to get 11MPG as my personal best but that's a 4wd, 350, tow package monster with 3.73 rear gear ratio. I can probably get more with the rebuilt trans but won't know until I get the engine fixed...

The only mod my '88 had was passenger side power seat. Same for the '89 plus an aftermarket radio. No drivetrain mods on the '91 either, but it does have its fair share of electrical mods (none of which impact fuel economy in any way). The trans that was in my '89 and now in the '91 was rebuilt when it was in my dad's '89 MGM and it might be a little better than stock but not by much.

Edit: A couple of things I forgot to mention on my '89. Before My dad gave it to me in 2003 he had the engine rebuilt and bored .030 over, and he put air shocks on the back. The air shocks seemed to actually help MPG if I aired them up and gave the car a little rake, less drag on the underside I suppose.

[DerekTheGreat]

AshleyTheGreat and I both drive box TC's. Base models got 3.08 rear cogs while Signature & up got 3.27's. Tow package netted you 3.55's along with other goodies such as dual exhaust & limited slip. Best my TC has ever done on the freeway is 21, but I always do about 80. Wrapped up a trip last weekend and managed 18 with mixed stop & go, stop & idle for awhile and 100mph+ expressway sprints.

I too prefer the torque of the pushrod era engines and general simplicity. I'm not fond of multiple camshafts & mile long timing chains, plastic intake manifolds and cast oil pans. My car has about 89k miles on it and runs & drives great. Things that could be looked into is the cold start-up lifter tick and EGR valve, which is sticking. All of that will be addressed when I swap the stock intake for my recently acquired GT40 stuff.