Insane Idea - 460 CID (Now 351w options)

[Mike_Windsor]

Silverfox Valve Bodies:

http://www.silverfoxtrans.com/silverfoxtrans.com/VB_AOD.html

Eenie, meenie, miney....nah.

Recommendations on which one to get, you smart car dudes?

[phayzer5]

I've got a wide-ratio, race built AOD. I'd rather see you rebuild the trans you have with a shift kit than tell your mechanic to slap in a valve body on a tired transmission, but to each his own

[Mike_Windsor]

I've got a wide-ratio, race built AOD. I'd rather see you rebuild the trans you have with a shift kit than tell your mechanic to slap in a valve body on a tired transmission, but to each his own

Would simply rebuilding the stock AOD be sufficient for the recommended engine mods?

[Mr.Blue]

You say my engine is going to want "real heads", and I keep hearing about these GT40s, so I would like to acquire them.

Real heads are ones that actually flow decent for a 351.................gt40's are a total bottleneck on a 5.8 BUT they are a decent upgrade from stock.........buying them used they are a decent bang for the buck upgrade...........


If you're rebuilding the tranny at least get some decent stuff for it or if starting from scratch get a 4r70w from the jy, build it and get a opti shift to control it...............

One thing i would point out is that while you may be getting some conflicting advice it is all information that you can use to make your decisions......everyone has a different way of building a car and likes certain upgrades or brands..........all the advice has been basically good IMO just different from person to person and can be confusing and alot to absorb for a new hotrodder...........

The tranny is a perfect example..........

Just leave it stock = no $
Shift kit + tranny cooler= cheap $
Shift + cooler + stall= $$
Valvebody + cooler + stall = $$$$
Build AOD with shift kit or valvebody + cooler + stall = $$$$$$$
If you choose the rebuild route at this point doing a JY 4r70w makes more sense because you get a better tranny with better first gear and the ability to control shift points with a opti shift, this is the most expensive option but why wouldnt someone build a 4r70w over an AOD if they are looking to upgrade?

Plus you can leave your AOD in the car to drive while you're saving/building the 4r70............

[Mike_Windsor]

So....the GT40s aren't ideal for the 351?

Sigh.

The only reason I was pondering the transmission is because I was told that if I improve the engine I risk damaging the transmission.

[Mr.Blue]

Again it boils down to budget and what you want............i know this can be frustrating, it still is for me and i've been hotrodding fords for years lol............

Ford used gt40's on 351 first gen lightnings but thats what they had laying in the parts bin and they arent "ideal" for a performance 351 build................are they better than what you have now? yes............

I dont necessarily agree with the tranny doomsday but it will put added stress on it depending on your driving habits lol

Its kind of hard to offer advice when you dont really know the person you're dealing with and its easy for new guys to get overwhelmed and in to deep time and money wise on a project...........

My honest suggestion is to do gears (3.73) and exhaust before going any further especaily since you will be farming out stuff and see how you like it....then start getting into the motor............

[Mike_Windsor]

I drive my care pretty safely. I only gun the engine (emergency maneuvers, remember) when some idiot has decided to run the red light and I'm in the intersection (happens a lot in Red Deer).

So, tolerate me a bit more here, but if not GT40 heads, then WHAT heads should I go for (and matching intake manifold as well I suppose).

I will start with the shorty headers and 3.73" differential gears.

[phayzer5]

Put a good carb and intake on ($500-ish for Edelbrock 600 and RPM intake (or Weiand)), new exhaust with shorty headers (~$500), and drive it around for awhile. When you decide you want more power, start looking at upgrading your heads, either with rebuilt GT40s or spend more and go aftermarket. Drive that around awhile and decide if its enough and if not, which direction you want to take it.

You honestly have no idea what you want to do with the car. You will either spend way to much money or end up not happy and hate the thing, but probably both the way you've been talking about it all in this thread. If your transmission shifts fine now, itll be fine as you go.

Start small with upgrades and see if its enough for you before you go and spend 1500+ on heads before really understanding what they'll do for you. You can use the time after the first upgrades to save $ for them anyways. Stick a mild cam in with the heads and see how you like it all together. By that time, the heavy foot you'll gain will help highlight the slow shifting transmission at high RPMs. Look at upgrading that with a stout rebuild, preferably incl.wide-ratio gearset. If you've made it this far and haven't touched the stock rear end at all, congrats. You'll want a trak-lok and better gears if you haven't already replaced the 2.73 open rear; inspect the old bearings/axles/seals while that's all apart b/c some of it will probably need to be replaced. If you're throwing all the new power into corners on stock suspension/wheels/tires, that needs to be addressed as well.

Decide now how much $ you'd be comfortable dumping into a 30 year old hunk of metal that you're not specifically building to race in some capacity. It'll help limit & guide your part purchase priority. Double the # you come up with since doing this work yourself doesn't seem to be an option.

[Grand1]

If you read the thread you'd see some people have convinced me to give the existing 351 some attention instead.

Sorry, read the title...you go with your wimpy 351.

[sly]

Sorry, read the title...you go with your wimpy 351.

Title changed to reflect the change of course and reduce confusion.

[88Vic]

There are GT40 style heads for the 302, like on a 96-01 Explorer (97.5-01 are GT40P heads, similar) and 93-95 Mustang Cobra, but there are GT40 351 heads that came on the 93-95 F150 Ligthning. In fact if you could find that engine somewhere (pretty scarce now), you could swap the whole top-end onto a rebuild block and have a good upgrade over stock. They made 240hp/340tq, big improvement over the 180hp/285tq that's stock. I couldn't tell you the cam specs for the Lightning, but I imagine either cam (stock or Lightning) would be fine since you say you want torque, but I'm sure there's better cams out there that make power at higher rpm but still retain low-end torque.

[Mike_Windsor]

Well.

You've all been helpful.

I went to my mechanic today, and told him what I was planning on doing. He was discouraging.

He said my best bet was to simply drive the engine until it dies and then drop a crate 351 in to replace it, with aluminum heads and whatnot. He also said that my car (1986 MGM LS) had 3.50" in the differential to begin with so going 3.73" was pointless.

He further went on to say that rebuilding a 351 was useless as they are of limited capacity. And to replace the camshaft, heads, intake, and headers he said would run me $11,000.

Finally, he said that heads for the 351 would run me about $2000 per head.

You're right. I have "no idea" what to do with my car, in that I'm probably mechanically inept to the point where I cannot do the work myself. Torque wrench, and other tools I would need, and well shit.

What I do know is that I want to keep it running for many years, and that I would like to give the engine/transmission some better power. I don't want to go insane with it, but just have enough.

Jesus, I almost feel like I should buy the parts and then ship the car and parts to one of you guys and you can bill me for it, since you know these cars very well.

Oh well.

[Mike_Windsor]

Sorry, read the title...you go with your wimpy 351.

My car is sulking now because I showed it your post. Shame on you.

[Grand1]

No worries....you sure you got the best advice?
Here are heads for a 351 for just under $400 a piece:

http://www.cjponyparts.com/cylinder-head-bare-head-64cc-chamber/p/M6049N351/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=merchant&utm_campaign=shopping&gclid=CjwKEAjwjd2pBRDB4o_ymcieoAQSJABm4egoaiqoj_XgsXCCCc070D1eXF4xVmisJDRm2J90jPj1rxoC2hTw_wcB

[turbo2256b]

2000.00 per head A pair of Brodex heads are way less than that. Brodex chevy heads I bought new for my boat 1000.00 + 900 dollars to have hard anodized to USNavy marine specs for use in salt water. BBF heads for a 460 most dont cost that much.