Insane Idea - 460 CID (Now 351w options)

[sly]

That mechanic doesn't want to do a rebuild, and would rather just swap a whole motor.

[Mike_Windsor]

Well I met with my mechanic friend, and he has agreed to assist me in a project - to rebuild the existing engine ground up.

He said to go with a stroker kit. (I briefly debated the wisdom of posting a new thread titled "Thinking About Stroking It", but I didn't want to push my luck)... basically it would increase the output of the motor to that of a 6.4L or something.

He also agreed with the concept of a shift kit for the AOD.

So I'm off to price out stroker kits for my engine, and hopefully in a few months or so I will be getting my hands dirty.

[Grand1]

Mike, thats great to hear!

The only way to know what is done to your ride.....is to do it yourself.
The 460 rebuild I am doing is the very first "heavy" mechanical procedure I have done in my life.

I have a close friend that is helping me....+2 that you have one.
The hardest part about the rebuild for me is patience....it truly is.

[Mike_Windsor]

I have little doubt that it'll be an adventure.

I was looking at various stroker kits, and it seems the 418 one is the way to go, but then I don't know for sure.

I look forward to banging my knuckles and discovering areas of my engine I never knew existed.

[phayzer5]

If you really want a stroker, I'd make it as easy on yourself as possible and buy an assembled 408w shortblock. Bolting on heads, intake and oil pan before dropping it in are easy enough for a shade tree mechanic to do with some assistance.

I'm warning you now, if you go the stroker route, don't complain when the bill for the parts approaches 5 figures. Getting the engine complete, carb to oilpan is one thing. You've got transmission needs to handle the torque, ignition system to light it off, fuel system upgrades to keep it fed, brake upgrades to stop it, rear end/tire upgrades to put the power to the road.

If you're curious, here's a shopping list of parts to get you started.

This is what they sound like in my lincoln: https://youtu.be/V2BfCkD68zs?t=198

• '84 351w block
• Scat 4" stroke 4340 forged crank, neutral balance
• Scat 4340 H-beam rods
• SRP forged pistons (9.5:1 @ 64cc, .050 cut off the tops)
• Federal Mogul coated rod, and 3/4 groove coated main bearings
• Canton 5/8" steel main girdle
• ARP 460 ford main studs (to fit the girdle)
• Melling HP 10833 High Volume oil pump, ARP bolts
• ARP hardened oil pump shaft
• Canton 7qt oil pan, ARP bolts
• FRPP 1pc oil pan gasket
• TCI neutral balance flextplate, SFI certified
• ARP flexplate bolts
• Summit branded SFI balancer with removeable 28oz. balance weight
• ARP balancer bolt
• Cloyes Hex-a-just double roller timing set, ARP cam bolt
• Isky 280-mega hyd-flat-tappet 302 cam, 232º duration .517" lift 108º lobe center, adv. 3º
• Speed-pro HT-9000 lifters
• Trickflow 8.5" hardened pushrods, .080 thick walls
• RHS/Pro Topline 200cc 7/16" stud 58cc chamber iron heads, assembled with Comp Cams hardware, some bowl work and light cleanup
• Mr. Gasket Ultra Seal head gaskets
• Mac 1-5/8" 351w swap headers
• Mr. Gasket Ultra Seal header gaskets
• ARP header studs
• Scorpion 1.72 ratio rockers
• ARP head studs
• Edelbrock Vic Jr. intake, used, with some port matching and plenum cleanup
• ARP stainless intake bolts
• Fel-pro 1262 gasket
• Pro-Systems 750cfm Holley 4150 carb
• 14x3" K&N filter w/ X-Stream lid
• MSD Pro-billet distributor, for use with a Vic. Jr intake
• MSD Digital 6 ignition box
• MSD TFI coil
• Accel Super Stock wires (for now)
• Autoilite 24's
• CSR billet alum. distributor hold down and fuel pump boss cover
• Stock tank with sump added
• -10an line to regulator, -8an to carb, dual-feed line
• Holley Red pump (for now, factory freak that outputs 10-11psi free flow)
• '89 Towncar AOD, Wide Ratio kit, Trans-go HP shift kit, A+ OD servo
• 2400 stall converter
• Custom o/r H-pipe,
• Magnaflow 4x19" round, 2.5" through "bullet" type mufflers
• 3-row radiator, add-on trans cooler
• 180º thermostat
• 3.55 Trak-lok rear (for now) w/ disc brake conversion
• Moog cargo coils, Gabriel Hijacker shocks
• '02 PI front brakes and springs
• KYB GR-2 police shocks
• 17x8 oem '99 Cobra wheels w/ SVT center caps
• 1" alum studded spacers
• 255/45 and 275/40 Kumho Ecsta Supra 711 tires
• 3G alternator conversion
• Mustang mini-starter and 0-ga battery cables

[Mike_Windsor]

Hm.

I presume that list covers every little piece I'd need...

[phayzer5]

I'm probably missing some things, but that should be most of what you'll need.

I built it to handle a ~200 shot of nitrous. So if you have no need for power adders, costs can be trimmed somewhat - cast rotating assembly vs. forged, bolts vs studs, carb type, iron vs. aluminum cyl heads, skipping the girdle. Deals on parts can be had, just be careful of what you buy used.

[Mike_Windsor]

Well I looked at a couple of 418 stroker kits and they seemed to be bare-bones deals, with the one being $1100.

Crankshaft, pistons, bearings, and a couple of other things. Still need to buy the other parts seperately.

[Bobcat]

I don't think you need a stroker for what you want.


You'll be in the range of spending over 4k for all those parts and machine shop time.

[sxcpotatoes]

You'll probably never get the money you put into this car back out of it. I'd say do the shit you can do right now (2.5" dual exhaust and headers), then do heads/intake/carb/cam (which while you're in there you'll probably need to do water pump and new timing chain because you've torn it all apart.

You can do a full rebuild pretty cheap $3k or so, especially if your mechanic buddy does help ya/you learn it. But as long as your motor isn't sludged up or anything, I'd say go with the first paragraph above. Your smile per dollar ratio will work out much better. Also, you can pick up some screaming deals on twisted wedge heads or AFRs sometimes from the mustang guys, especially going into winter, $12-1400 for a set! (you'd need to get used stuff checked out at a machine shop, of course) To give you an idea of what the GT40p's can do... look at Explorer motor swaps on here, you can take that car that had 180hp on her best day ever and easily bump that up to around 325 with just mild mods or a tune/cam head redo on GT40p's (as long as you open up that exhaust so it can breathe, more air, more fuel, more power).

[Mike_Windsor]

Humor me.

What advantages does a 418 have over a 408?

[Mike_Windsor]

I was checking out some heads, and I found these:

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/mc/cylinder-heads/ford/e-cnc-sb.shtml

I see all of the specifications and was thinking to myself, "Are these ideal?"

And, naturally, I have no idea.

But, hey, they're aluminum, and for "light racing applications".

[sxcpotatoes]

Look at other people's setups, cams/heads/intakes and carbs have to be matched for flow to work together. You can run a Holley double-pumper but if you have the stock intake you will choke the power to pretty much stock.

Research head/carb/intake combos for 351w and read-read-read until you make sense of it all. People who slap performance parts on their 351s will generally dyno the mofo or take it to the drag strip to compare it to their old stock numbers.

We can give you a roadmap but you have to draw the blueprint yourself, or copy it from someone else who started with the same setup and/or goals as you. Happy hunting.

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[Mike_Windsor]

Indeed, I will do some research.

Anyone here have a 351W stroked to 418CID? Whatcha runnin'? C'mon, I'll make hamburgers. Honest.

[sxcpotatoes]

I've read power to weight the 408 is best way to go. 418 could be maximum possible bore/stroke I'm not sure. Hell a 302 Mustang HO engine can be turboed to like 450hp IIIRC before things go 'splodey.

You could just boost the engine if it's nice and tight as is. Dunno what the 351's max power tops out at with forced induction.

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