Handling problem (driver problem)

[BigMikeIT]

Hi,

It's been some time since last posting here and purchased a rear then front PI sway bars from Bowman85merc.

I'm been having a handling problem after installing the rear PI sway bar, though not really fair to blame the PI sway as it may be the driver::
On wet streets the car fishtails and rear tire spins more than I remembered before. And stopping is a challenge as the front tires skid.

Maybe it's the tires. Tires have full like-new tread, albeit they are nearly 10 year old Vogue's. P225 in front, P235 in rear (both are 60R16).
I heard on a Vogue Tyre forum that the treads on these are hard (a composite), in comparison with say Michelin.

Maybe it's the fact my daily driver is a Mazda3, and drive it with a heavy foot since it goes nowhere when the pedal is dropped. Then when I drive my BigWhite, the torque wins (driver issue).

When stopping on a wet surface, the front discs appear to lockup and slide. Just tonight while going to a local gym, I merged into a center turning lane going about 15-20mph, I braked the tires slid (sliding towards median) so I gassed it making a left turn and fish tailed like the Dukes of Hazzard. Then driving home fish tailed three more times -- in a not funny way like oil was on the road/tires. I touched the tires and they felt/smelled clean.

Any ideas?

+Mike

[86VickyLX]

Get new tires before the blow out on you. As for the fish tailing, how fast are you going in wet weather? Wheels locking up in wet weather? Sounds like the stock box brakes to me.

Here are some things I suggest to make everything nice.
Replace all control arm bushings. I'm willing to bet they're wasted, being a 24 year old car. Worn out rear bushings will cause the car to fishtail more easily, especially going over bumps.

If you haven't already, replace the shocks, and springs.

[mrltd]

As mentioned, get new tires. You are endangering yourself and everyone around you.

The stock brakes are horrible, they always lock up. As for handling, lots of reasons it's acting like that. It's an old car and if the parts aren't up to snuff it'll be bad. Heck, just could be the roads. I spun my BMW out last night because of how slick the roads were. Been awhile since a good rain.

[BigMikeIT]

As mentioned, get new tires. You are endangering yourself and everyone around you.

The stock brakes are horrible, they always lock up. As for handling, lots of reasons it's acting like that. It's an old car and if the parts aren't up to snuff it'll be bad. Heck, just could be the roads. I spun my BMW out last night because of how slick the roads were. Been awhile since a good rain.

Why would I get new tires that are in excellent condition?
That'll cost me $1000.

The front end was completely redone 2 years ago, new bushings and all. So the steering action feels like a new car.

What springs / shocks should I replace them with, if not stock?

[ford man]

Sounds like you need to slow down when it's raining or take the mazda and leave the Marquis for sunny days. The PI sway bars help the car turn better so it's more prone to over steer then before. Don't know about your tires but wider tires aqua plane more in the wet too.

[85crownHPP]

Why would I get new tires that are in excellent condition?
That'll cost me $1000.

whaaaaa???

You can get a decent set of tires in that size for 400 bucks... hell even Goodyear Eagle RSA's were only 150 each last I checked.

[sly]

old tired get brittle and crack. check the sidewalls for cracks and the tread for cracks. if there's no cracks, then the rubber may not be that hard yet. I just had to get new tires put on my Lincoln because the old ones were the cheapest cheap POS crap tires one can get in that tire size. I couldn't stop very easy in those either. New tires, much better. If you're sure it's not a problem with the tires and you're having issues putting the power down and stopping... you should check the inflation of the tires and make sure they're up to snuff. I generally run 32-35 PSI in all tires and have great treadwear (damn near perfect actually) when I'm not driving like a demon. For the stopping... same thing, check the tire pressure first... then check the brake pads and rotors/drums. The brake system may also need to be bled.

[BigMikeIT]

whaaaaa???

You can get a decent set of tires in that size for 400 bucks... hell even Goodyear Eagle RSA's were only 150 each last I checked.

Yeah, but are they WSW? Check vogue tyre website.
These are best riding tires I've ever owned.

I would equate the bling and riding quality like having CoCo for a wife.
Yet bling for these custom tires cost $240/each.

And now I have to pay. Yes there are cracks near the sidewall. The Vogue tyres supposedly have a lifetime warranty covering it, and with less than 15Kmiles, time to visit the local Caddy dealer.

[gadget73]

Make sure your back brakes are working properly. the fronts are more inclined to lock up if the back brakes aren't operating. they are just too damn grabby but its much worse if everything isn't working properly.

[johnunit]

you can get tires in teh right size with whitewalls of various sizes from Diamondback Tires or Coker Tires for less than a grand.


Honestly if your tires are 10 years old, there is almost no circumstance under which they are safe. I've seen tires blow out from age, and they don't softly deflate, they explosively separate and suddenly you're riding on the rim like it's the last minute of an LA car chase.

[Piece-it pete]

Yeah, and if it delaminates at higher speeds it can really do a number on your fender/quarterpanel.

Pete

[johnunit]

was talking to a car buddy of mine on midnight Mcflurry run (don't judge...) and he was saying that the most common time for speed/heat/age related tire blowouts is offramps. The tires get overheated or to the point where only the outer rubber on the shoulders (where the tread meets the sidewall) is holding it together on the highway, and then the sideways stress of the turn as you go onto the offramp is the tipping point, and you end up at... well... whatever is inbetween the merging lane of the highway and the offramp. Around here that's usually a bridge, or a guardrail...



Also consider that you don't need BRAND NEW tires, just ones that have a date code in the last few years. There are decoders all over the net and it's universal to any tire sold legally in north america. You could buy a full set for 200 bucks or less that will last you a couple years and isn't dry rotted. I've bought two sets of tires (winters and summers) for my vic, both presentable whitewalls after some scrubbing, that way.

[mrltd]

was talking to a car buddy of mine on midnight Mcflurry run (don't judge...) and he was saying that the most common time for speed/heat/age related tire blowouts is offramps. The tires get overheated or to the point where only the outer rubber on the shoulders (where the tread meets the sidewall) is holding it together on the highway, and then the sideways stress of the turn as you go onto the offramp is the tipping point, and you end up at... well... whatever is inbetween the merging lane of the highway and the offramp. Around here that's usually a bridge, or a guardrail...



Also consider that you don't need BRAND NEW tires, just ones that have a date code in the last few years. There are decoders all over the net and it's universal to any tire sold legally in north america. You could buy a full set for 200 bucks or less that will last you a couple years and isn't dry rotted. I've bought two sets of tires (winters and summers) for my vic, both presentable whitewalls after some scrubbing, that way.

It's also when the most load is place on a tire. I had one come apart going straight on a highway. Lifted the car off the road, tread wrapped around the axle, and tore the trunk floor up. My BMW's previous owner also go to enjoy an age related blowout, and that's why the front passenger side fender is trashed- and some floorpan damage from the resulting off road trip from losing control of the car. Old tires are timebombs.

To the OP, Stock replacement springs and shocks are fine. For a little better handling, step up to a PI/taxi shock.

As for the oversteer comment, since both were upgraded the balance should still be the same.

[86VickyLX]

It's also when the most load is place on a tire. I had one come apart going straight on a highway. Lifted the car off the road, tread wrapped around the axle, and tore the trunk floor up. My BMW's previous owner also go to enjoy an age related blowout, and that's why the front passenger side fender is trashed- and some floorpan damage from the resulting off road trip from losing control of the car. Old tires are timebombs.

Something similar happened to me with my Vic, however, in my case, the tread harmlessly passed behind the car. Thank God. 16 year old tire. Looked brand new on the outside. On the inside, something much different.

[BigMikeIT]

So, I after speaking with a few buds down at the dojo, my driving of the vehicle is suspended pretty much until I figure something out.
I'm planning to buy a place so no Vogues.

I looked for the tire codes on the Vogues, and they are written on the whitewall. And the white wall is old, so the numbers are iffy.
For the front right I got: R-38828, K8204
For the rear right I got: R41416, K8669
I understood the coding bit, and am damn sure I read the digits properly. There are no codes in the oblong oval print area.

I checked on the Mazda, and the code was right in that oblong oval print where it should've been: 4MBR 3108.
According to the Mazda Goodyear Eagle P205-50-R17, that one tires was made in late August 2008.

*hold the presses*
I just remembered the log I keep for the car. Stupid me.

Actually I located the original receipt for the Centerline Pulsar rims, purchased in 8/1/2001.
And the original Vogue Tyre warranty booklet when they were installed on 8/29/2011.
At mileage 111,609 ~~ roughly 20K miles.
And the serial numbers aren't even close to what I could find on the tires.
So, yes (pffft!) 10 years old.

Well the fronts: "P225/60R16 97H Wide Trac Touring II White / Gold Vogue Tyre" rated at 60,000 miles;
The rears: "P235/60R16 99S Wide Trac Touring II White / Gold Vogue Tyre" rated at 80,000 miles.

They are beyond the current 5 year warranty limit for cracking. The old warranty had no such limitation. Everything is covered.
Even Road hazard damage, and road service too.

Bah.