EFI Intake/Throttle body info

[87_crown_vic]

just too bad we cant all afford new engines and build up our stock stuff or find better stock stuff to improve on what we had. i prefer building a cheap car up with cheap parts and say it is mine and paid for compared to going bankrupt with stuff costing too much

[gadget73]

you know, all this math makes my head spin. I'll keep my 65mm throttle body on my crappy little stock motor ktnx.

[Outlaw440]

Ok. You may (or may not) have a decent knowledge, but the first strike against you, as is often the case with knowledgeable people, is that you are arrogant. Nobody can learn from someone that is arrogant.

Sorry if i come off that way, i have no intentions of coming off that way. Maybe there is a little confusion as to where im coming from here. Im sure no explanation i give now will convince half of you, but maybe some people will have the sense to see it. This very topic, has been beat to death so many hundreds of times on other forums, it makes me sick that SBF guys are still crippled with the "too big" mentality, so yes, i may have some attitude towards the subject as it is extremely redundant.

Ok. You may (or may not) have a decent knowledge, but the first strike against you, as is often the case with knowledgeable people, is that you are arrogant. Nobody can learn from someone that is arrogant.

And, as knowledgeable as you are, you can't explain to me the simple reasoning that I asked for. Who uses a diameter to engine displacement ratio, and why do they use it/ think it is ok to use?

I could give you a list of names. They can be found at sbftech.com, some are on hardcore50.com as well, although i don't frequent that site much. Ed curtis, Jay allen, Joel5.0 (don't know his actual last name) are just a few notables. There logic is explained in full detail in this thread, and as a matter of fact the graphs and half the numbers came from info joel had shared/compiled with me and many others.

You never stipulated aftermarket components. Now that you have, I ask you this: Why compare a stock 2.3L DOHC engine with a modified 5.0L OHV V8? It is even more nonsensical than originally thought. Apples and oranges. 1960s technology, with 1990+ technology. Of course you can make a 302 move as much air as a late model engine... but why make such a useless comparison?

The first DOHC engine was made in 1912 by fiat. By far not new technology. It is still an otto engine and operates under the same principles as an OHV pushrod motor. It is by far, NOT a useless comparison. Maybe if i used the 4.6L DOHC marauder motor for comparison would it satisfy you more? If so just say so and ill be back with calculations.

Also, I see you are from southern Massachusetts. I am from northern Connecticut, right in the river vallkey, a little north of Hartford. I'd love to see your car, and also wouldn't mind sitting down to talk some tech. Do you ever run it at Epping or Lebanon Valley?

Yes, i spend some time at Epping, the only problem is the series/classes i race in don't feature much if anything at all at those tracks, so the only time i spend at epping is test/tune stuff. I would gladly welcome you (and anyone else for that matter) to come out and chat at the track someday. I already stated i have zero problem with that, i chat with guys every time im there.

you know, all this math makes my head spin. I'll keep my 65mm throttle body on my crappy little stock motor ktnx.

More power to ya. It is what makes you happy after all that counts.

As P72ford already stated, this is simple math. Very simple.

just too bad we cant all afford new engines and build up our stock stuff or find better stock stuff to improve on what we had. i prefer building a cheap car up with cheap parts and say it is mine and paid for compared to going bankrupt with stuff costing too much

Super victor efi intake: $389
90mm Elbow: $115
90mm TB : $315
total: $819

Having someone tell you a hair over $800 is going to cause someone to go bankrupt: priceless. If you can't afford it, and are just going to piss and moan, then simply leave this thread. If you cant afford it and still would like to learn, i am here for discussion.

This thread i created with the basic idea of, how to get the word out on what intake/TB is needed for guys trying to squeeze the most power out of there motors and have the most efficient intake setup, perhaps i should have made this a collaboration with cylinder head and camshaft info, as that seems to be causing a little of the confusion. I didn't start this thread to hear guys like 87_crown_vic pull the budget card and cry "poor me i have no money so why pay attention to this".

If you want to listen and follow along thats great, if you want to sit and cry poor, i dont want to hear it and will have no part of it. P72ford and 1987cp seem to be the only people inquiring and seeking actual information here and i commend them for that.

[P72Ford]

The first DOHC engine was made in 1912 by fiat. By far not new technology. It is still an otto engine and operates under the same principles as an OHV pushrod motor. It is by far, NOT a useless comparison. Maybe if i used the 4.6L DOHC marauder motor for comparison would it satisfy you more? If so just say so and ill be back with calculations.

Well, it may have been first built then, but that 1912 engine is a far way off from a 2005 DOHC engine. That is my point.

But, I still do not see using other engines as a basis for comparison. They are not the same. Maybe if someone else had built an engine and you wanted to mimic it, plus or minus a few things, there would be a basis for comparison.

Otherwise, I'd start afresh with my own theory.

[Outlaw440]

Otherwise, I'd start afresh with my own theory.

That's your own perogative and fine by me. Tons of people have different theories on how to do things, makes the world go round, i simply brought my theory here to share and you were at least willing to have a decent technical discussion about it.

My personal opinion is that ACSA is not the way to look at it (when only given the blade and bore diameter), although it does have some merit if taking the entire throttle body measurements, not just the blade into account.IE: for it to be an accurate calculation the distance and shape of the inlet to the TB blade must be taken into account. But unfortunately those measurements are not nearly as widespread available, but if i do decide to take them in the future i will gladly put them up here.

I posted the info, what you do with it is your choice.

[P72Ford]

I'll agree on that.

[merc91]

the only point i've been trying to make this whole time is 90mm deal won't hurt torque, but isn't worth the extra $500 on the HO or GT40 platform revving 4000 maybe 4500 that the majority of this forum discusses. The relevance of your calculations in the first post are next to nothing for most of these motors because of the amount of air they need at their highest consumption point is simply not CID proportional at all to the other motors mentioned.

I didn't say you need to go to 7000rpm to take advantage of a 90mm, I said you need a 90mm to take advantage of being at 7000rpm. Putting a 65mm on a big $$$ all high performance aftermarket deal makes no sense at all and everyone realizes that... but most of us aren't playing that game, hense the 65mm popularity.

About your question of which engine i would prefer, I would like one that has allot higher range ability with torque still down low but like yourself we also don't want to spend excessive amounts of money for a serious racing setup on a panther... so we don't. We try to make it haul allot harder than stock LOPO but still keep the costs down.

That said, i'm personally going to shell out some $$ for an aftermarket setup in the 450hp range like your talking about once i get the money in a year or two. This is a car thats almost mint condition, and it's one that i will hold onto for a very long time so paying the money, for decades of enjoying some really good hp and torque for the street and track once and a while is worth it to me.

[85crownHPP]

Since getting a box to run stupid fast is now supposed to be ridiculously easy with huge intakes, What I wanna know is, how do I get one of these magical cams that will make my 85 run like an overweight bat outta hell with just E7's and Explorer suckers? Cuz that's all my cheap ass has got, with a tweec-able ECM and the other needed bits for a SD HO conversion.

[Outlaw440]

Since getting a box to run stupid fast is now supposed to be ridiculously easy with huge intakes, What I wanna know is, how do I get one of these magical cams that will make my 85 run like an overweight bat outta hell with just E7's and Explorer suckers? Cuz that's all my cheap ass has got, with a tweec-able ECM and the other needed bits for a SD HO conversion.

They aren't magical camshafts. They are CUSTOM camshafts.

There are tons of custom cam companies out there, a google search will do you wonders.

I use Jay Allen at camshaft innovations.

Also, if you want to bitch and cry "poor me" then go somewhere else, because that was not what i started this thread for. The half of you don't have a fucking clue as to what was even being discussed here and just want to complain that you don't have any money, and im sick of hearing that shit over and over again.

If that's all this website is going to do is piss and moan about how you don't have money in a tech thread, then i am done with this thread, this site, and everything to do with it.

[Grand Marquis GT]

All of you.

Yes. Every goddamned one of you.

Knock it off and get along, or i'll start pressing buttons and people get magically banned.

[85crownHPP]

They aren't magical camshafts. They are CUSTOM camshafts.

There are tons of custom cam companies out there, a google search will do you wonders.

I use Jay Allen at camshaft innovations.

Also, if you want to bitch and cry "poor me" then go somewhere else, because that was not what i started this thread for. The half of you don't have a fucking clue as to what was even being discussed here and just want to complain that you don't have any money, and im sick of hearing that shit over and over again.

If that's all this website is going to do is piss and moan about how you don't have money in a tech thread, then i am done with this thread, this site, and everything to do with it.

I made the 'cheap ass' self reference just for giggles in light of all the previous anti-bitching and moaning that's been done, but really if one of these cams will make what Ive already bought work that much better, Im all ears provided they dont cost more than a package of one-level-up bolt-ons.
Im not trying to build something superwicked anyway...