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KW's 1979 Ford LTD Landau

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    #31
    Originally posted by Tiggie View Post
    Glad this one ended up with you. Looked so well preserved on the Facebook ad, and apparently it is.

    How about some c-pillar light pics at dusk? Haha. I just always wanted a car with those.


    I thought the pillar lights had burned out at first, but while checking in the trunk, I noticed the C-pillar accents use a light tube to illuminate the accents. It has to be properly dark to see these operating due to the design.


    Anyway, a good number of hours got dumped into this car, and a few left for tomorrow. Found some very amusing things done over the years, like the fact one valve cover had red RTV attempting to seal it, the other had a very petrified cork gasket. Those got some new FelPro PermaDry units. The clone 2150 had much of its vacuum hooked up wrong, adjusted wrong, and the A/C throttle kicker is just MIA. No worries, it probably won't be around too long, I'll explain further on. Replaced the very dead 45 year old shocks with some new KYB Gas-A-Justs. New rear wheel cylinders, brake booster, and master cylinder fitted. Old master cylinder had what looked like mud in the main reservoir, and the rear brake reservoir was dry as a bone. New P215/75R14 tires fitted. Installed new NGK spark plugs and wires. Oil changed with some high zinc 10W-40 and FL-1A oil filter.

    Tomorrow will be getting the carburetor dialed in, sorting all the vacuum lines out, resealing the rear axle cover, inspect the EGR valve, remove the smog pump that presently goes to nowhere, and maybe checking to see if the A/C can hold vacuum. Then we can take it for a test drive!





    Now with regards to the carburetor, why would I toss a 2150? I'm not sure how good this clone unit really is and how much I trust it long term. I have a 500 CFM Carter AFB handy with a Ford kickdown linkage, so fitting a dual intake on the engine and popping that up on top probably wouldn't be the worst over the wheezy stock cast iron intake. I'm not here to make this car some rocket ship, but I think letting it breath a touch better wouldn't be a terrible thing. I also believe the stock air cleaner will fit over that unit, so with the exception of a careful eye, most folks wouldn't notice much different under there.


    My Cars:
    -1964 Comet 202 (116K Miles) - Long Term Project
    -1979 Ford LTD Landau (38K Miles) - New Cruiser

    -1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles) - Slowly Getting Put Back Together
    -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
    -1997 Grand Marquis LS (240K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by Kodachrome Wolf View Post



      I thought the pillar lights had burned out at first, but while checking in the trunk, I noticed the C-pillar accents use a light tube to illuminate the accents. It has to be properly dark to see these operating due to the design.

      Thanks! Excellent feature of this model.

      I would not hesitate to throw a 4-bbl on there in this case. Aftermarket 2150's are not ideal. The amount of variations in the original applications was insane and there is no way a one size fits all China unit does the same thing. The original 2150 on my F250 is phenomenal - it starts like it's fuel injected and runs perfectly. When they are right, they are great. But otherwise... just a cranky carb.
      1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, next project
      1988 Crown Vic LTD Wagon - waiting in the wings

      GMN Box Panther History
      Box Panther Horsepower and Torque Ratings
      Box Panther Production Numbers

      Comment


        #33
        Alrighty... car is home!



        Put about 60 miles on it today. Found it does 70 smoothly on 7 cylinders because I didn't reattach the No. 7 spark plug wire and it sat on the manifold. No damage, good on NGK for that. Definitely ran better on all 8 cylinders though. Cruise also works, using a gingerly touch to the switches. The new tires and shocks made for a quite pleasant ride quality. The C4 responds nicely to downshift requests and delivers a nice positive engagement of all gears. Brakes felt spectacular with the new wheel cylinders, master cylinder, fresh fluid, and Aero brake booster. Took care of desmogging the engine, and tucked those parts away in a box should those be needed.

        Now I wanna say, it drives good. The idle though... I've got a lot of words to describe that stupid clone 2150.


        Something is wrong with the idle circuits. I've solved all the vacuum leak and cleaned up the EGR valve to ensure adjustments to the idle circuits and engine speeds could be done correctly. Prior to adjustments, the fast idle cam was too low, the adjustment screws were all the way out, and engine idle speed set oddly. Timing is correct for the engine at 6* BTDC with advance disconnected/capped and is not walking around. I turned the adjustment screws all the way in, then out 2 turns. Upped the fast idle cam on my dwell/tach meter to the requested specifications on the valve cover and let the engine warm up. Once warm, I attempted to set the hot idle, but the engine was plain unhappy. The driver side adjusting screw would affect idle quality when turned in, so I set that accordingly to turn in until stumble, then out a touch and 1/4 turn. The passenger side screw just didn't do anything, in or out.

        I suspect my troubles lie within that circuit. Presently, the idle in park is a touch rough, but particularly bad in gear. However, with the lightest touch of the accelerator and you move off the idle circuits the engine runs as smooth as expected and the pickup is respectable. I may try and give it another whirl while I wait for some parts, but I don't think this clone is gonna work properly, and it truly won't matter much.



        Game plan right now in the near future stands to do some invasive work on the engine. End goal is a touch of extra power, but also improved health for the engine. I have a Lightning flat tappet cam sourced for next to nothing, along with a 500 CFM (650 CFM unit that has a restrictor) 4 BBL Carter AFB with appropriate Ford transmission linkage. I know that cam is nothing very special, but the 351 firing order will ease some strain off that front bearing with the standard 1-5 firing order. I need to get a basic dual plane 4 BBL intake to suit the replacement carburetor and a throttle kicker for the A/C (the original is missing entirely). I'll also get a new double roller timing chain set as I'm not sure what's presently fitted behind the cover, whether it be a nylon coated deal or only a single link unit. Unfortunately it also needs a radiator, as there is a small pinhole somewhere near the upper outlet. It's not making a mess as of yet, but you can hear a small hiss with the system pressurized and car off. I'll see about one of those all aluminum units and also installing a air-to-oil transmission oil cooler inline with the new radiator.

        Of funny things to note about this car, I thought it had a 8.5/8.8 rear axle, it definitely has the 7.5 rear axle. Mixed up getting the right differential cover gasket since it was leaking from the poorly resealed cover on pickup. Also, this car has a very original looking flex fan. It is worth noting a flex fan was mentioned as factory equipment in a 1975 Ford engine manual I was using for ID'ing the 2150 vacuum circuits. That may be converted to a conventional Box clutch fan instead.


        My Cars:
        -1964 Comet 202 (116K Miles) - Long Term Project
        -1979 Ford LTD Landau (38K Miles) - New Cruiser

        -1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles) - Slowly Getting Put Back Together
        -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
        -1997 Grand Marquis LS (240K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by 87gtVIC View Post
          Adding one to that car would be a real task...that is the proper matching type...

          Different glass, need a metal trim that fits in the window channel to attach the proper mirror to and the proper mirror itself.

          Would be easier but uglier to add the other newer style mirror. Cut a couple holes in the door etc...a sin.

          I think its awesome just the way it is.

          A sign of simpler times. Perfect the way it is.
          My Zephyr is the same, no pass side mirror. Bought a mirror, could not bolt it on. Need different glass and bracket. I like that it doesn't have a pass mirror, but for safety i'm going to add one.
          Great looking box, couldn't have gone to a better owner imho
          Last edited by massacre; 06-10-2024, 04:16 PM.
          ..

          Comment


            #35
            if one mix screw does nothing, either its something fucky with the China clone carb (say it ain't so!) or a vac leak on that circuit. Might be worth confirming the gaskets and all that aren't screwed up and providing a leak path underneath. Should be able to spray some carb cleaner or whatever around the base of the carb to figure that out.
            86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
            5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

            91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

            1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

            Originally posted by phayzer5
            I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
              if one mix screw does nothing, either its something fucky with the China clone carb (say it ain't so!) or a vac leak on that circuit. Might be worth confirming the gaskets and all that aren't screwed up and providing a leak path underneath. Should be able to spray some carb cleaner or whatever around the base of the carb to figure that out.
              Honestly, with time to reflect on the matter (and also futz with the carb again), I'm inclined to believe a leaky intake gasket is to blame and your prognosis is correct. I just started unscrewing the circuit that had minimal change, and with the screw backed out an incredible amount there was a pickup in idle speed. Also, the erratic nature of the idle walks a bit. It'll go from smooth to rough and back again, but not in the distinct way the '87 did when it had a burnt valve. Plus, that dead misfire was evident with the engine under load. This engine runs smoothly under load.

              Considering the shocking originality of so many bits on the engine, I do not find it surprising and a reason to why I already had sourced intake gaskets. The only reason those were not fitted over the weekend was diminishing returns on doing so. If the 2BBL intake has to come off anyway, why not go ahead and do the extra work so I'm not doing it two, or even three times?

              I am saving all the original bits (smog pump, tubes, intake) should it ever need to be put back as close to stock as possible.


              Here's also an unrelated question... Anyone know what the heck is up with the return heater hoses? Seems '79 cars have this funky return hose system, where it exits the heater core with a 3/4" hose, goes into a metal fitting about 3-4" long that flares up to a moulded 1" hose that returns back to the water pump. Seems by '80 that just gave way to a regular 3/4" bulk hose from start to finish there.


              My Cars:
              -1964 Comet 202 (116K Miles) - Long Term Project
              -1979 Ford LTD Landau (38K Miles) - New Cruiser

              -1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles) - Slowly Getting Put Back Together
              -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
              -1997 Grand Marquis LS (240K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

              Comment


                #37
                If I remember right, it is some kind of pre heater.
                If you need on of those black plastic tubes with two tees coming off it, heater hose related, I have at least one nos.
                I would highly recommend getting a genuine Ford shop manual. I hated the 79 because of the one year only stuff.

                Comment


                  #38
                  So the 7.5 axle Panther does exist. Always heard of them in the parts book but have never seen a confirmation until now.
                  1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, next project
                  1988 Crown Vic LTD Wagon - waiting in the wings

                  GMN Box Panther History
                  Box Panther Horsepower and Torque Ratings
                  Box Panther Production Numbers

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Mainemantom View Post
                    If I remember right, it is some kind of pre heater.
                    If you need on of those black plastic tubes with two tees coming off it, heater hose related, I have at least one nos.
                    I would highly recommend getting a genuine Ford shop manual. I hated the 79 because of the one year only stuff.
                    It really just looks like a short metal pipe used as a coupler. The inlet hose to the heater is a regular 3/4” bulk hose. The outlet to the water pump goes 3/4” hose -> tube -> 1” hose. There’s no extra tee’d junctions. Looks like any ‘80-‘85 setup, just that weird large hose, which I assume went away since there’s not really a good reason to the bespoke hose and tube deal being needed.


                    My Cars:
                    -1964 Comet 202 (116K Miles) - Long Term Project
                    -1979 Ford LTD Landau (38K Miles) - New Cruiser

                    -1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles) - Slowly Getting Put Back Together
                    -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
                    -1997 Grand Marquis LS (240K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Kodachrome Wolf View Post

                      It really just looks like a short metal pipe used as a coupler. The inlet hose to the heater is a regular 3/4” bulk hose. The outlet to the water pump goes 3/4” hose -> tube -> 1” hose. There’s no extra tee’d junctions. Looks like any ‘80-‘85 setup, just that weird large hose, which I assume went away since there’s not really a good reason to the bespoke hose and tube deal being needed.
                      Should the 2150 have an egr cooler?
                      1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
                      1995 Chevrolet Caprice Classic STW, "Sally"

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Arquemann View Post

                        Should the 2150 have an egr cooler?
                        This intake has an integral EGR port. It’s not a spacer that goes beneath the carburetor like some other applications. On that note, it doesn’t have any cooler lines going to it.


                        My Cars:
                        -1964 Comet 202 (116K Miles) - Long Term Project
                        -1979 Ford LTD Landau (38K Miles) - New Cruiser

                        -1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles) - Slowly Getting Put Back Together
                        -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
                        -1997 Grand Marquis LS (240K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by Kodachrome Wolf View Post

                          This intake has an integral EGR port. It’s not a spacer that goes beneath the carburetor like some other applications. On that note, it doesn’t have any cooler lines going to it.
                          That's consistent with the Canadian-spec up-to-85 carb 302 setup. No EGR cooler on the factory 2150 cars, and no EGR spacer on mine at least.

                          Current drivers: wagon + 91
                          Panthers: 83 GM 2dr | 84 TC | 85 CS
                          | 88 TC | 91 GM
                          Not Panthers: 85 Ranger | Ranger trailer | 91 Acclaim | 05 Focus
                          Gone: 97 CV | 83 TC | 04 Focus | 86 GM
                          | Junkyards

                          Comment


                            #43
                            odd water pump with a larger fitting perhaps?

                            As for the leak thing, i was thinking more the one under the carb and/or EGR spacer. Not sure what the specific arrangement is there, but I know some of the CFI cars had a spacer between the manifold and CFI unit, others had the EGR cast into the intake. I'd expect the carb cars to use the same sort of intake.

                            also if the bottom flange of that carb is significantly not-flat enough it can just suck air despite having a good gasket. China carb and who knows who working on it previously, can't rule much out. Its not real hard to crank down on carb mounting bolts and bend the flanges down enough to cause it to not seal anymore.
                            86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                            5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                            91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                            1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                            Originally posted by phayzer5
                            I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
                              odd water pump with a larger fitting perhaps?

                              As for the leak thing, i was thinking more the one under the carb and/or EGR spacer. Not sure what the specific arrangement is there, but I know some of the CFI cars had a spacer between the manifold and CFI unit, others had the EGR cast into the intake. I'd expect the carb cars to use the same sort of intake.

                              also if the bottom flange of that carb is significantly not-flat enough it can just suck air despite having a good gasket. China carb and who knows who working on it previously, can't rule much out. Its not real hard to crank down on carb mounting bolts and bend the flanges down enough to cause it to not seal anymore.
                              No idea about the water pump. I'd need to go look at the hose again and see if it looks like it's a larger hose clamped to a smaller port. Hope it's really not a one off pump, but on the flipside, all the replacements are the typical cast iron or aluminum options that you see for the rest of the Panthers, so it's not like I'm SOL if I needed a pump in the future.

                              I'll be curious about looking at this carburetor for fun after it comes off and hopefully the last of my engine adventures come to a close. I think at that point I'll have done a lot more than I originally planned under the guise of "If I'm already gonna be there... I may as well do it now." I didn't plan on getting incredibly invasive on this this engine and changing a lot of things, but whatever, I've told myself that before.

                              In the end, I'll (hopefully) have a well sorted engine with a sprinkling of extra power to make for easy cruising. Just got to get the A/C working properly and also do transmission fluid change with some fresh Type F, do a quick band adjustment on the C4 and call it a day.


                              My Cars:
                              -1964 Comet 202 (116K Miles) - Long Term Project
                              -1979 Ford LTD Landau (38K Miles) - New Cruiser

                              -1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles) - Slowly Getting Put Back Together
                              -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
                              -1997 Grand Marquis LS (240K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

                              Comment


                                #45
                                does that use F or Dexron? I think at some point it switched, though '79 is probably old enough to be F.
                                86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                                5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                                91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                                1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                                Originally posted by phayzer5
                                I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                                Comment

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