kishy's 1991 Grand Marquis

[sly]

Mine are part number 60269. At ride height, they touch, but just. I am still at stock height though. They are supposed to be left at 5psi to keep them snug and prevent rubbing holes into them. I leave mine at 8 just because I don't check them when the temps drop.

[kishy]

Last night, filled the axle with 80W90. Then turned the car around and changed the engine oil and filter.

Out came the Rotella T6 5W40. In went the Rotella T6 15W40. Motorcraft filter. 8207km change interval.
Studied the condition of my drain plugs. Recall this was a new oil pan recently...8207km ago, in fact.
Decided to change from copper washers to the steel washers with molded rubber on them. The copper washers encourage (well, me at least) to overtighten the plugs and that's not good.



I had transferred a magnet from one of the old, to one of the new drain plugs. At this oil change, it was covered in a very fine slurry of metal. I do not have much of a point of reference for how good or bad this is because I don't think any of my others have magnets (not for engine oil), and it's been so long since I was doing routine maintenance on this one that I don't recall if this was a pattern or not. I will note that this is not a quiet engine - for much of my time with it, it has sounded tired. One of the most revealing tells was when I took off the noisy smog pump but the noise didn't change. This is all merely observation, and part of the ongoing process of accepting that nothing is forever.





It was a cool evening and the initial noise on startup (routinely, not just the first start after the change) with the 15W40 seems maybe just the slightest bit more pronounced than it was with the 5W40. But I also drove the wheels off it since the last oil change so it may be meaningfully more worn, too. Cause/effect.

I'm sure most of it is in my head but the car felt smoother on the highway, between the rear end stuff and the oil change. It's not a bad car for NVH at all but it was transmitting something into the interior before that seems to be gone now. Oh, and the brakes are buttery smooth again, not the slightest hint of undue grabbiness. So if nothing else, cleaning them helped, and the re-seal job should prevent that coming back.

As an aside for the math and/or currency nerds:

Canadian vendors sell a 5L jug. 64.99 CAD = 13 CAD per L = 14.69 tax-in
US vendors sell a 3.78L jug. 24.98 USD = 6.61 USD per L = 7.01 tax-in = 9.65 CAD
Bought two 3.78L jugs from Walmart US via the website for store pickup since I was going to Detroit anyway. The in-store price is higher, IIRC.

Mine are part number 60269. At ride height, they touch, but just. I am still at stock height though. They are supposed to be left at 5psi to keep them snug and prevent rubbing holes into them. I leave mine at 8 just because I don't check them when the temps drop.

60769 maybe? That's what I've got.
My ride height is below stock but there are a number of factors here. My body mounts are all super squished, particularly the rear ones (seems like the rear ones always are trashed first on these cars). The springs that went in seemed to position everything about how I wanted, which was mild mild mild rake with the front slightly lower - but very nearly level, using the rocker panel bright trim as the reference point for this. But any sort of meaningful weight brings it down below where I want it. Without clicking back a couple pages, I'm sort of theorizing that maybe the sedan cargo coils (which it had before) plus the Air Lift bags might do what I want. Sit a little lower to begin with, plus the option to stiffen as required.

[gadget73]

wow, basically a 50% price penalty just to get oil across the border.

[kishy]

wow, basically a 50% price penalty just to get oil across the border.

It gets worse...many Shell products sold in Canada are sourced from, and refined and bottled in Canada. Not sure if this is the case for Rotella specifically though.

[gadget73]

still kinda nuts.

I seem to remember reading something about why you shouldn't use diesel oil in a gas engine a while back, something about the additive packages not dealing with the same problems since the combustion byproducts are different but I don't honestly remember the fine points. My diesel gets diesel oil, the others get gas engine oil.

[Kodachrome Wolf]

still kinda nuts.

I seem to remember reading something about why you shouldn't use diesel oil in a gas engine a while back, something about the additive packages not dealing with the same problems since the combustion byproducts are different but I don't honestly remember the fine points. My diesel gets diesel oil, the others get gas engine oil.

There are some difference, but a good number of diesel oils do cover API gasoline ratings, and usually will be marked as such on the back. I think most only support up to API SN, but that's completely serviceable for a considerable amount of engines still on the road.

[kishy]

When they make a 40-weight oil that isn't marketed as a diesel oil, I'll gladly do that. Until then, Rotella it is, as long as this one can't keep its oil pressure up when hot, which isn't likely to fix itself.

[GM_Guy]

Originally posted by sly View Post

Mine are part number 60269. At ride height, they touch, but just. I am still at stock height though. They are supposed to be left at 5psi to keep them snug and prevent rubbing holes into them. I leave mine at 8 just because I don't check them when the temps drop.


60769 maybe? That's what I've got.
My ride height is below stock but there are a number of factors here. My body mounts are all super squished, particularly the rear ones (seems like the rear ones always are trashed first on these cars). The springs that went in seemed to position everything about how I wanted, which was mild mild mild rake with the front slightly lower - but very nearly level, using the rocker panel bright trim as the reference point for this. But any sort of meaningful weight brings it down below where I want it. Without clicking back a couple pages, I'm sort of theorizing that maybe the sedan cargo coils (which it had before) plus the Air Lift bags might do what I want. Sit a little lower to begin with, plus the option to stiffen as required.

Thats the same airlift. The kit is 60769, but the bag part number in that kit is 60269.
Airlift is a pain to figure out whats what since they do not publish all the specs for all their kits or bags. Royal pita trying to figure out what bags are in some app specific kits (I've been looking at ones that come up on the local auction houses to try and figure out what other applications may use the same bag).

[kishy]

Uh, ok, so the 15W40 has to go.
This engine does not sound happy at all, whereas it sounded quite happy with the 5W40.
It also spends considerably more time with my oil pressure gauge sitting around 50psi even when moderately warm, which tells me the relief is probably...well, relieving.

I'm not sure that I fully understand the problem since at 60-ish degrees F it isn't cold enough outside (as I understand it, and "on paper") to really be making use of the "15" part of the number, but this engine is making a lot of valvetrain noise, even after it's up to temp. Either it has coincidentally worn a great deal more at the same time as changing the oil, or it's having issues getting oil in sufficient quantities into the heads.

Car's parked until I sort this out. Thanks to some changes in how I insure my vehicles, they're literally all legally 'on the road' at the moment so minus known mechanical problems, I can just pick whichever and go, which is nice.

edit:
I paid ludicrous Canadian pricing to pick up a 5L bottle of 5W40 Rotella T6, which is what it had previously.
Drained the 160km 15W40 back into its clean original bottle with a clean funnel, should be fine to use for topping up various cars I guess.
With 5W40 back in it, the engine's previous noise level has returned and all seems well.

I also greased the u-joints, ball joints, tie rod ends, pitman arm and idler arm. Everything looked and felt about right.

Did discover a rust hole in the driver floor pan. Appears to have originated on the inside, ate away the steel, then the undercoating gave out revealing the problem. It's not enough to present an actual safety issue but certainly requires attention. I'm sure salty boot water from winter driving the car soaked into the carpet and had a fair bit to do with this developing.

[Tiggie]

I concur on the 15w-40, or 20w-50. No gas engine I have is happy with that stuff. 10w-40, sure my old worn stuff likes that. The 15w+ makes the valve train unhappy.
I am running Quaker State "Euro" 5w-40 in the S10 and it likes it.

[friskyfrankie]

I always use what the car calls for unless there is an extremely good reason not to.

[kishy]

I concur on the 15w-40, or 20w-50. No gas engine I have is happy with that stuff. 10w-40, sure my old worn stuff likes that. The 15w+ makes the valve train unhappy.
I am running Quaker State "Euro" 5w-40 in the S10 and it likes it.

I haven't stumbled upon a 10W40 near me, but I'd certainly try it if I did.
Rotella ended up being my answer to this particular problem because it was readily available, full synthetic, and had the lower 'cold weather' weight while still having higher-than-30 warm weather weight. I knew I was about to make the engine work rather hard for quite a while, so an option that would keep my pressure up when thoroughly hot, and stand up to abuse seemed to make the most sense.

I always use what the car calls for unless there is an extremely good reason not to.

Zero PSI of oil pressure when hot is exactly such a reason, and the low-output 302 is well known for it.
Lifters collapsing when you're stuck in gridlock for an hour...been there, done that, no thanks.

[sly]

I always use what the car calls for unless there is an extremely good reason not to.

Zero PSI of oil pressure when hot is exactly such a reason, and the low-output 302 is well known for it.
Lifters collapsing when you're stuck in gridlock for an hour...been there, done that, no thanks.

Yup. That's pretty much the reason. I've never needed more than 10w30 in mine, but I've also not ever managed to wear one out either. They either die a horrible death, or get sold working.

[kishy]

Just a few things for this one:

The rearview mirror fell off while the car was parked. The mirror is a 90s GM mirror with map lights that I wired in 10+ years ago, which fit the Ford mirror button nicely.
I bought the Permatex rear view mirror adhesive pack that stores carry, and glued it back on. Seems to be fine.

I got tired of the dashcam (Thinkware F200) audibly complaining about the rear camera being missing. I had removed it when I got the windows tinted. I have now re-attached it, to the tint which wasn't what I really wanted to do, but there is nothing else nearby suitable to stick it so that's where it is.

As for those grabby rear brakes:

...
As for the axle business, today I drained the axle oil, and replaced the axle shafts, bearings, and seals. It's actually sitting on jack stands, empty, overnight because I wanted to be sure my RTV was dry. Previous change was 2016-05-12 at about 215k km (prior to that, 2012 at 169k). Today, the odometer shows 230,321km.
...
Revisiting some history here:
Quite some time ago, maybe 2016, I replaced the rear brakes on this car, including the drums. They gave me some issues after that which may have been related to the drum machine finish, or shoe arching, or I dunno - they would click when breaking, like rapidly grab and un-grab. At some point I got them adjusted in a way that made them seem to behave alright and that was good.

More recently, the rear brakes, and especially the rear right, has been extremely grabby. Very on-off, like locking up and dragging the one tire down my driveway when just trying to slow for crossing the sidewalk and dropping onto the road. After a couple stops, it begins working more normally. This symptom can be a telltale of shoe contamination from axle oil, and when I looked, I found there was very minor but definitely existing oil loss from both seals. That's what spurred on the axle repair today.

So with any luck this will put the brake issues to bed. The drums were turned fairly recently, so if there's anything else to look at if problems persist, it'll be the shoes.

The odometer is currently sitting at 232xxx - 2000km since the quoted reply. The grabby brakes, specifically the right rear, returned with a vengeance. Today, I decided to try to sort it out.

Wheel off. Drum off. Brake disassembled. Found grooves where the pads slide. Ground them down closer to flat, just aiming to smooth them out a bit so the shoes don't really hang up in the grooves. A touch of grease on those pads, reassembled, adjusted both sides out about right. Test drive shows the brakes now come on smoothly, not "on/off" like that particular one has been.

I've "fixed" this multiple times before and it seems like after a little bit of shoe wear it comes back, so I guess we'll see how long it stays fixed this time.

[87GrandMarq]

I’ve never had luck with that permatex rear view mirror adhesive. It’ll work for a couple months then fall off. I used gorilla glue two part epoxy on the 90 mgm and it’s been holding up for a while now. I think it’s been a year or so, so it’s been through the brutal Florida summer at least once and still hasn’t failed.