Prudence, my 87 Town Car

[kishy]

1. Trip to Michigan

Last summer's road trip to northern Michigan went off without a hitch. 1,700 miles with an average 18.1 mpg. The Lincoln did a little better than that on the highway, except for a stretch up to Mackinac where the speed limit is 75(?) and driving through the Appalachians. Overall I was pleased with the performance. After hiccups on its last two big road trips, this was redemption for the car and its reliability as a daily driver.

It was also great meeting Kishy for lunch. I had never been to Detroit before, and while there was a lot there that met my expectations, there was even more that had me wanting to look around more next time I'm in town. Northern Michigan, on the other hand, I've probably seen enough of.

...
5. Current State

The AC is weak. Not sure whether something's wrong or if this is just the way it is now, but outside temps were in the mid 70s and air at the vents was pretty underwhelming.

Everything feels a little worn, not as solid as it should. Door jambs are faded, hinges sag, door cards are cracking and not staying attached to the doors, speakers crackle or have died, one of the grab handles in the back has come loose, the seat bolster foam is weak, the HVAC has a vacuum leak somewhere behind the dash, and there's an exhaust or evap leak that occasionally makes its way into the cabin. Not to mention all the electrical gremlins I've been chasing the past five years.

Mechanically a lot has been sorted, but in touch and feel there's dozens of little things that add up to remind me this car is nearly 40 years old.

I'm sure I said this somewhere at the time, but indeed it was great seeing you and your family (and your car). I'm glad we made it work. Many people talk down on Detroit, and there was definitely a time when it was an unappealing city, but I'd say in all the metrics folks usually go by, it's a world-class city once again with lots to offer. Michigan outside of large urban areas is your standard "small town America" and I just don't find it charming like many do. To each their own.

Unfortunately, the developments you're finding with your car are part of the experience of trying to keep something like this on the road. The interior plastics are perhaps the worst problem of all because they are a particularly finite resource, not really being reproduced (there are those stick-on repair panels, but they're awful) and turning to dust when you look at them wrong. I posted some photos recently in my 84 thread which document the breakdown of the door cards, but will also show you how the handle attaches and might be useful in that respect. It's just a stud that's part of the handle, and a nut with a piece of sheet metal to act as a big washer on the inside of the door card.

I'm actually heading to Lansing next weekend; my brother-in-law is graduating from Michigan State. Current plan is to drive out on Wednesday and do some sightseeing in Detroit Thursday and Friday. Unfortunately, we won't be taking the Town Car. We will, however, be returning to Lansing in late June for a wedding, so perhaps I could make the case for using the Lincoln then.
...

I'm not aware of any specific events to recommend you to check out, but a couple random thoughts:

• The Henry Ford museum in Dearborn is truly excellent. Particularly if you need to kill a couple hours on a rainy day, keep this in mind (but also not only for that case).
• Michigan Central, the formerly abandoned train station, is now housing all sorts of...stuff. Hard to adequately summarize. Worth popping in to check out. https://michigancentral.com/visit/
• There are a couple neat venues (not food related though it is otherwise a market) at Eastern Market.
• The Detroit Riverfront Conservancy has made great strides in recovering chunks of riverfront into walkable paths and parkland. https://detroitriverfront.org/
  They're catching up to Windsor in this respect - Windsor's riverfront was almost entirely rail yards 30+ years ago, and we now have a ton of green space and multi-use paths for walking, biking, etc.

[sly]

SUV = taller wagon can go over some rocks
minivan = taller wagon that can go over pebbles

Early 2000 Caravans (other than the TCM - the air duct mods to get more air on those things to cool them is a thing) are some of the most reliable vehicles I've ever seen. The sheer number of them I see being used by painters to haul job site stuff is crazy.

Not near as many SUVs seen running around doing that unless they are pulling a trailer. This is probably different in different areas, but tends to show me that minivans are not the horrible things we have been led to believe. For me, I just dislike the seating position in minivans. I feel too close to the nose of the vehicle. I prefer trucks anyhow, so I prefer an SUV just for the driving feel. Wagons are the ultimate no matter the platform. If you want one form or another, get that. If you have economic reasons to prefer one over the other, have at it. I'm not gonna preach about my preferences. I will say I like the big rig horn I've mounted to mine. Highway shenanigans have reduced quite a bit since I've got the loud alert that can actually be heard now.

[DerekTheGreat]

It wasn't even bait and you bit anyways. I was just pointing out objective differences.

I'm not going to comment on perceived reliability, new-vs, cheap-vs-expensive or diy-vs-shop arguments. Humans have been paying for varying levels of convenience since the dawn of time.

You on the other hand laid all almost exclusively subjective matters.

You need 4WD, well... For whatever personal choices have lead you to such a situation. More than "duh, it's winter".

There is no objective downside to fuel efficiency, barely any point to performance above a certain level, and a lighter and more maneuverable modern car is objectively safer, unless you're going head to head against a semi truck.

The more you drive, the more that 4 mpg saves you. Though I put more weight on this as where I am fuel is fucking expensive.

The Odyssey has a turning radius over 3ft smaller than a Tahoe. Its not just about wheelbase.

Minivans are the epitome of practicality, modern marketing really wants you to think that it's actually SUVs, even though most of them offer just a fake sense of capability and ruggedness with the cost of fuel efficiency and unnecessary size.

No offense intended, tried to be objective here.
Somewhere out there, there's a Toyota Yaris driver that thinks we're all complete idiots for driving 80's luxury barges. Gas guzzling, no power, poor quality impractical hunks of wasted space. And not even 4WD!

No offense taken, friend. I forgot to put in my first response that I am not trying to slag Lutrova for his vehicle choice. His life, his money, his choice. I'm merely defending my own and supporting the rally for old cars in response to your comments. Although I can see how offense could be taken, there's no free meal or whatever the proper saying would be. So if he feels that way, I'll take responsibility for poking the bear.

"Perceived reliability, yada yada.." Yep, there's merit there too. Also, when you get right down to it, everything can be subjective and/or a matter of preference. I like the look and feel of older stuff, even this Tahoe which I consider to be almost too "new" for me. But I'll go into a screed about part pricing. Well, I tried to but the Honda is too new (I guess) and so all O'Reilly's has available is brake pads, which are equivalent in price to the price for the Tahoe's brake pads. So I had to go back a few years. For a 2023 Odyssey, I'd have to spend $50 more for a set of rotors. Pads & calipers were about the same price, surprisingly. Part prices for my '89 K1500 are dirt cheap by comparison, about half the price for everything brake related. Went to look at fuel pump prices, nothing available for the Hondoo, so I can't make that comparison. A bit surprised how similar prices are for common parts between the Hondoo and Tahoe, I expected something like with my K1500, where I can practically buy parts with what change shakes loose from the couch. I still want a 2000-2004 4x4 short box, regular cab 5.3 stickshift 1500.

Oh jeez, more turning radius stuff? We might as well start talking about how much farther you or I can pee.

Minivans the epitome? Probably when people began to start looking at cars the way they look at appliances- not my style. Blame my parents if you want, I praise them. My wife doesn't like minivans, which I'm paraphrasing as she's got the mouth of sailor (Or is it a Marine? That's what her father was..) and she uses colorful and rather humorous language to convey her thoughts on 'em. She told me a story of once-upon-a-time when a salesman tried to sell her a minivan over the Tahoe she was looking at and had already expressed interest in buying. She really likes Tahoes, this is her third one. No fake sense of capability with this SUV. It's a truck through-and-through. Tall tires, steel bumpers (another driver totaled their car running into one of 'em this past winter), plenty of ground clearance, lots of suspension travel, locking rear diff and fully boxed frame, I think. I was just under the damn thing yesterday, you think I'd remember if it was fully boxed. Yet the damn thing rides nice like a car. It's rather "blah" but I mean that as compliment, as much as I kind of hate to hand them to the thing. It's hard not to.

Oh yes, everyone works to justify their choices, myself included. My defense is this, I'm not a practical person. I buy what I like and what I think represents me best. A vehicle is a reflection of you whether you acknowledge it or not. I like my barges, they can go sideways in snow and go vroom-vroom even if there is no zoom-zoom to go with it. With my Town Car's 3" analog clock, I can tell what time it is from the back seat, even if it is only right twice a day.

SUV = taller wagon can go over some rocks
minivan = taller wagon that can go over pebbles

Early 2000 Caravans (other than the TCM - the air duct mods to get more air on those things to cool them is a thing) are some of the most reliable vehicles I've ever seen. The sheer number of them I see being used by painters to haul job site stuff is crazy.

Not near as many SUVs seen running around doing that unless they are pulling a trailer. This is probably different in different areas, but tends to show me that minivans are not the horrible things we have been led to believe. For me, I just dislike the seating position in minivans. I feel too close to the nose of the vehicle. I prefer trucks anyhow, so I prefer an SUV just for the driving feel. Wagons are the ultimate no matter the platform. If you want one form or another, get that...

This Tahoe has indeed gone over small rocks. She used to take it to some crazy locales when she lived in AZ.

Those things really are. I hate to admit that, but even here in rust central you still see those things clinging to life. I think the 3.8 is a really reliable engine, despite being a Chrysler product. (Or is it? Not like I cared enough to research them..)

When I first met my wife, I did try to convince her to get something else. This was just my prejudice against "This blah, ugly-ass SUV thing that's far too modern for me." She argued about it's versatility, reliability (even though it was fairly neglected when I was introduced to it). She liked the seating position, ride height, driving feel and then told me to drive it. Even though I don't really care for wagons, I did try to suggest one. While she likes the Town Car, she feels they're just too pokey and she's more of a "spirited" driver. As I started driving the Tahoe, it grew on me. I soon forgot about the replacement car list and instead made a repair list.

[Tynnerstroem]

What a great looking car this is. There's something to be said for an all-black Town Car, and I can think of no other car that must look so at home as it undoubtedly does in the DMV area. We need a picture of it in front of the Capitol Building!

[Lutrova]

On the AC: Yes, it's running R-134a. The compressor was replaced by a shop last summer, and afterwards the system performed acceptably, but not great. This spring I'm pretty sure the AC ran at least once, but now the compressor isn't engaging.

As far as minivan vs SUV vs whatever preferences go, to each their own. Ultimately, the Odyssey is my wife's car, so her preference takes precedence. And coming from driving a Honda Fit - which I referred to as a mini-minivan - the jump to the Odyssey was easier than if we had moved to a comparable SUV. I believe there's a value proposition to minivans as well, since the average consumer has an aversion to the segment and is apparently willing to pay a premium for the same performance and features in a crossover or SUV.

Earlier I wrote how the fuel economy wasn't radically different between the Odyssey and the Town Car. Well, that isn't really true. If I can get 18 mpg in highway driving with the Lincoln, I'm probably getting 28+ mpg on the same trip in the Odyssey. Not quite the 35 mpg we used to see in the Fit, but still a pretty significant savings.

I'm not aware of any specific events to recommend you to check out, but a couple random thoughts:

• The Henry Ford museum in Dearborn is truly excellent. Particularly if you need to kill a couple hours on a rainy day, keep this in mind (but also not only for that case).
• Michigan Central, the formerly abandoned train station, is now housing all sorts of...stuff. Hard to adequately summarize. Worth popping in to check out. https://michigancentral.com/visit/
• There are a couple neat venues (not food related though it is otherwise a market) at Eastern Market.
• The Detroit Riverfront Conservancy has made great strides in recovering chunks of riverfront into walkable paths and parkland. https://detroitriverfront.org/
  They're catching up to Windsor in this respect - Windsor's riverfront was almost entirely rail yards 30+ years ago, and we now have a ton of green space and multi-use paths for walking, biking, etc.

Thanks for the suggestions on things to see. Michigan Central is certainly on my list. The Ford Museum looks interesting, too. A bit pricey, but maybe I'm spoiled with all the Smithsonians in DC. We've pushed our departure back a day to let our son work through another little respiratory bug at home, so I suppose we'll see a little less than before, but I'm hopeful we can still cross a few things off the list.

Unfortunately, the developments you're finding with your car are part of the experience of trying to keep something like this on the road. The interior plastics are perhaps the worst problem of all because they are a particularly finite resource, not really being reproduced (there are those stick-on repair panels, but they're awful) and turning to dust when you look at them wrong. I posted some photos recently in my 84 thread which document the breakdown of the door cards, but will also show you how the handle attaches and might be useful in that respect. It's just a stud that's part of the handle, and a nut with a piece of sheet metal to act as a big washer on the inside of the door card.

I can accept that this is just the way these things are. I grew up in an old Victorian that my parents always had in various states of repair or restoration. So long as I'm not a homeowner, the Town Car exists as an outlet for my own similar impulses. These days, when someone comes up to make small talk about the car, I always say "it's been an education." Even when things go wrong, I'm still learning a ton, and that's gotta count for something.

Funny you mention the stick-on panel, as I just noticed you had one on the driver's door of the '84 and was meaning to ask about how it looks/feels. My door cards aren't nearly as bad yet as that car's, but the vinyl has split on all four doors. It's a shame the repair panels are no good because I'd really like to do something. I've seen an armrest repaired with real stitched leather (or pleather) in a junkyard car, and while it was a good job, it still didn't look right compared with the other interior details.

What a great looking car this is. There's something to be said for an all-black Town Car, and I can think of no other car that must look so at home as it undoubtedly does in the DMV area. We need a picture of it in front of the Capitol Building!

You know, it seems people's minds go one of two places with this car. I have always seen it as more a diplomat, limo-type vehicle. But the first time I drove it to a job site shortly after I bought it, the foreman said, "that's not a diplomat's car, that's a Mafia car!" In fact, a few weeks ago I was at a gas station when a man approached and pulled out, unprompted, how Paul Castellano was whacked beside a very similar Town Car to mine. Which strikes me as an incredibly obscure piece of trivia, considering it was just one of many acts of mob violence from nearly 40 years ago.

[DerekTheGreat]

...You know, it seems people's minds go one of two places with this car. I have always seen it as more a diplomat, limo-type vehicle. But the first time I drove it to a job site shortly after I bought it, the foreman said, "that's not a diplomat's car, that's a Mafia car!" In fact, a few weeks ago I was at a gas station when a man approached and pulled out, unprompted, how Paul Castellano was whacked beside a very similar Town Car to mine. Which strikes me as an incredibly obscure piece of trivia, considering it was just one of many acts of mob violence from nearly 40 years ago.

It depends on the person. I see them much like you do, but have gotten comments such as, "Big pimpin' Bean!" ("Bean" was my handle back in highschool) from a friend, "Dayumn.. Tha Link-in lawyer!" from a dude at a gas station and "What are you doing driving that old man's car?" from a co-worker. Said co-worker was an old man, so naturally I asked him where his was. Not one mob type comment, least not yet.

As for the A/C performance, gadget made some great points. You can also check between the radiator and condenser for buildup of debris and stuff, that'll hurt it and was the culprit with my old Ranger's A/C. If the shop that did the A/C work put dye in it, you could use a black light to see where it's leaking, if not obvious. When I had my heater core done, I also had them replace the evaporator, which could be the source of your leak. Getting ceramic window tint will help loads- my car will now freeze you to the bone if desired, wouldn't do that on hot sunny days before the tint.

[Lutrova]

The car went to the shop a week or two back. They found it was 4 oz low on refrigerant, but the real issue was one of the wires to the pressure cycle switch had come loose. They also didn't charge for the work.

The shop manual suggests there should be a connector for these wires, where currently they run bare into the switch. I suppose that's worked well enough for the past six years, but if anyone knows what the proper connector is I might try the more correct approach.

[friskyfrankie]

The car went to the shop a week or two back. They found it was 4 oz low on refrigerant, but the real issue was one of the wires to the pressure cycle switch had come loose. They also didn't charge for the work.

The shop manual suggests there should be a connector for these wires, where currently they run bare into the switch. I suppose that's worked well enough for the past six years, but if anyone knows what the proper connector is I might try the more correct approach.

I would be pretty certain an aftermarket connector can be found on EBAY or if need be, elsewhere.

[kishy]

RockAuto lists it so auto parts stores should be able to get it too.
RockAuto has it under "Electrical-Connector" then "A/C Clutch Switch Connector"

Wells 1P1086 or 1P1400
GPD 1711464 or 1711499
Four Seasons 37234
Rostra 610703

With stuff like this I'd typically toss each part number in eBay and see if there's a seller who has one for 10 bucks with free shipping and just go that way, if you aren't otherwise wanting to make a RA order.

[friskyfrankie]

RockAuto lists it so auto parts stores should be able to get it too.
RockAuto has it under "Electrical-Connector" then "A/C Clutch Switch Connector"

Wells 1P1086 or 1P1400
GPD 1711464 or 1711499
Four Seasons 37234
Rostra 610703

With stuff like this I'd typically toss each part number in eBay and see if there's a seller who has one for 10 bucks with free shipping and just go that way, if you aren't otherwise wanting to make a RA order.

+1. GREAT info!

[Lutrova]

Thanks, Kishy. I don't know why I thought they'd be harder to find than that. Looks like the cheaper options on RA are still under ten bucks with shipping, so I'll probably go that route.

[gadget73]

those plugs fall apart, at least the lock tabs are very frequently gone. The AC compressor plugs fail too, and those also can be had. I think I've replaced 2 on the Towncar from belts that jumped and damaged them, and the one on the Continental turned to crumbs when I touched it.

[87GrandMarq]

Funnily enough, I had a belt jump on my 87 MGM and it ate through the clutch connector too. Only the rear portion of the plastic remains and I had to use spade connectors on the pins. Works fine lol.

On a side note, anyone seen how some compressor coils have the connector mounted directly on it and others have a few inches of wire then a connector? I’m curious if it’s just a supplier thing.

[gadget73]

I've replaced that coil because of that. Eventually the connection broke and it just wouldn't go anymore. Had a spare coil from a failed compressor with a junk clutch so no big deal. Just mildly annoying dealing with the retaining rings. I was ignoring it until it stopped working.

probably supplier, I'd prefer the wire honestly. All of the OE Ford ones I've seen were right on the coil. The aftermarket Sanden clone I put on my S10 after a couple of original compressor seal failures had the wire.

[87GrandMarq]

Ah ok I figured as much. Eventually I’ll get a new coil for it and have it looking good again. Without a smog pump, I couldn’t get the belt tight enough to not jump so I threw a smog pump back on it. All has been well ever since.