kishy's 1991 Grand Marquis

[gadget73]

Do not pull the converter with the engine. it will probably tear up the front seal on the trans and it creates a blood bath on the floor when the converter pukes all over the place. Unbolt it, leave it in the transmission.

You can pull the engine using a plate bolted in place of the upper intake. No worries breaking the bolts. I've done it using both the correct one that gets all 6, and a modified 4bbl carb lift plate that got 4. Figure if you can pull a big block V8 out using the 4 bolts that were meant to hold down a carb, it'll pull a smallblock Ford using the same 4 bolts.

[kishy]

I've always left the converter in the trans and separated them at the flexplate. The last two pulls/installs I did with the trans attached still. It was not as fun to get out put the reinstall was much easier than playing the engine/trans line up game.

Do not pull the converter with the engine. it will probably tear up the front seal on the trans and it creates a blood bath on the floor when the converter pukes all over the place. Unbolt it, leave it in the transmission.

You can pull the engine using a plate bolted in place of the upper intake. No worries breaking the bolts. I've done it using both the correct one that gets all 6, and a modified 4bbl carb lift plate that got 4. Figure if you can pull a big block V8 out using the 4 bolts that were meant to hold down a carb, it'll pull a smallblock Ford using the same 4 bolts.

Much appreciated. I unbolted the converter and left it in the transmission.

I undid the other stuff I had forgotten about - fuel lines, wiring, removed the whole p/s pump bracket, heater core hoses, all of the air conditioning stuff since it doesn't hold refrigerant presently, removed/snapped off the remaining cat bolts - and yanked it out this afternoon.

Not too bad, honestly. Definitely regretting my choice of doing this with the car nose-in, but it's manageable. There is a low clearance to a ceiling fan which has scratched my hood (wasn't in conflict until the suspension wasn't holding the engine anymore), so I took that off, which I should have done first...but again, this wasn't supposed to be full engine removal.





My hit list while this is out is looking like:

• clean stuff moderately
• rear main seal
• clean or replace the pcv screen
• break free, and then reinstall all exhaust hardware. maybe go buy new bolts, it's all pretty ugly.
• possibly put on the set of 90 TC manifolds if I can find them. they should fit with the factory cats just fine.
• possibly hollow out the cats. on the fence about this. it's a known oil burner and I had always suspected restricted cats. I dunno.
• flush, then re-install the oil pump pickup
• oil pan gasket and oil pan

Feel free to add suggestions.

Engine mounts would probably be worth doing since I have them, but you can't swap them without removing the lower control arms, and I'm really not interested in going there right now.

I also finally understand the mystery of why they bothered with the dual-sump pan: while the pickup is at the back, the pump is at the front, and the front sump seems to primarily exist so there's room for it.

[gadget73]

yeah may as well clean everything while its out. Even if its not a show-level detail it would be kind of silly to not spend some time with a pressure washer blasting the goo off the engine and engine bay while its more accessible than it ever will be again.

[WagonMan]

Take note how far the rear main seal is installed. Do not just set it in flush with the block! Many have done this and it will leak! WagonMan

[VicCrownVic]

Also, when doing that rear main seal make sure to put some thread sealer on those flex plate bolts. I did not put sealer on those bolts when I swapped the engine in The Ice Car and I ended up with a small but steady leak that I thought was the rear main. I pulled the trans very soon after (maybe the next week) to find the oil source was those flex plate bolts and not the rear main.

For lining up the trans to engine I like to use box panther caliper slide pins to hold the two close enough to correct to get bolts started. I've pulled and reinstalled AODs (probably a dozen) far more than engines (2 pulls and only 1 install) and I don't think used the slide pins for engine install, it just sort of lined up but an engine leveler helped a fair bit with that.

[Tiggie]

Take note how far the rear main seal is installed. Do not just set it in flush with the block! Many have done this and it will leak! WagonMan

I can vouch for that, as well as the flexplate bolts VCV mentioned.

[kishy]

yeah may as well clean everything while its out. Even if its not a show-level detail it would be kind of silly to not spend some time with a pressure washer blasting the goo off the engine and engine bay while its more accessible than it ever will be again.

Yeah, I'm doing a wire brush and brake cleaner all over the backside of the engine, and anywhere that will be difficult once the engine's back in. I'll pressure wash the finished product in the car, maybe with hot water since I have that capability.

Will take a look around for other things that are easier to do with the engine out. I'm eyeing the fuel lines - perfectly sound, but a little rusty. If nothing else, the wire brush and brake cleaner treatment, and then soak them in an oil spray product.

Take note how far the rear main seal is installed. Do not just set it in flush with the block! Many have done this and it will leak! WagonMan

Hmm...didn't see this in time, already yanked it out.

That being said, I did notice it seemed to be slightly inset, maybe backed up against the raised ridge in that bore. I'll drive the old one back in again to compare the marks on the crankshaft if there's any uncertainty. Of course, setting it in too deep won't be an issue with this application, so I may just go for that.

Not quite sure how I'll drive it in. I've done this before (with, in fact, the exact same seal) on my 2.3 but I don't remember what tools I used. Maybe just a fairly wide punch and tap it in gradually going around the circle.

Also, when doing that rear main seal make sure to put some thread sealer on those flex plate bolts. I did not put sealer on those bolts when I swapped the engine in The Ice Car and I ended up with a small but steady leak that I thought was the rear main. I pulled the trans very soon after (maybe the next week) to find the oil source was those flex plate bolts and not the rear main.

For lining up the trans to engine I like to use box panther caliper slide pins to hold the two close enough to correct to get bolts started. I've pulled and reinstalled AODs (probably a dozen) far more than engines (2 pulls and only 1 install) and I don't think used the slide pins for engine install, it just sort of lined up but an engine leveler helped a fair bit with that.

I can vouch for that, as well as the flexplate bolts VCV mentioned.

Ah, yeah, I noticed the bolt holes were leaking oil after I took the bolts out. Maybe a dab of RTV spread into the threads followed up with a dab of threadlocker. My thread sealant which would be friendly to this task has been missing since I moved, and the stuff I can find is the thicker natural gas line stuff which just doesn't seem to squish into fine threads nicely.

Detail photos of a few things:

Removal technique (being careful not to scar the crankshaft):



Aforementioned raised ridge in the bore:



Replaced the PCV screen:



The air injection ports do, in fact, have the mythical threads people mention from time to time. A wire bore brush cleaned them up quickly and nicely (but you could never ever do that with the engine against the firewall) As I've deleted the pump, I'll plug these, maybe not with the fancy special plugs but just some typical bolts.





Random notes to self (or whomever):

• keep the TAB/TAD solenoids installed and connected to the harness, despite deleting the valves and vacuum lines, to avoid setting codes.
• to plug air injection ports: two 1/2" long bolts of 5/16-18 to plug and protect threads for holding on the air pipe, and two 1" bolts of 5/8-11 to plug the air ports.
• need PCV grommet, avoid Dorman as memory says it fits loosely and is what the current one is.
• exhaust bolts: manifolds to heads, and cats to manifolds. not sure at the moment what they are but they look like 3/8".
• bellhousing bolts: need one (I mean, really I don't, it's been fine for the whole time I've had it without it, but if I'm here anyway...and it wasn't even one of the difficult ones that was missing)
• option to deal with the throttle body coolant circuit, pick one of:
  • buy some coolant hose of the weird tiny size it is and put new hoses on
  • install #12-24NC bolts in newly tapped hose nipples to plug off the circuit
  • same as above except use a pipe plug on the intake manifold side

[DerekTheGreat]

When I had the boxes... I always set the AOD to shift a little later (tighten up the TV cable about 1-2mm) but not late enough to be harsh. It was enough to feel the engagement. Never had any trans issues after that and put over 60K miles on that after initial rebuild/upgrade to wide ratio gears in the 88.

The trans in the white car has 235k on it. I recently swapped a valve body with a shift kit in it, plus its running more TV pressure. The valve body swap was mostly done to fix a problem with a dragging forward clutch. If the trans in that car pukes I'm blaming it more on the stuck check ball than me screwing with it. Besides, with a quarter million miles its more amazing that it works than if it failed.

...This will be in OD by the time you hit 40...km/h. Not cool. Don't like it. Shifts have some feel, and it doesn't feel slippy, but it's a total slug unless you're really into the pedal to keep it in a lower gear.

There's a balance to be found, but the basic idea is that a firmer shift is a faster shift. The sooner you engage a gear, the less time the parts spend slipping. A soft shift is soft because there's overlap where parts are, in essence, working against each other.

I simply won't use OD unless I know I'm going to be cruising at a speed appropriate to stay in it. Letting it go in and out as TV dictates in regular traffic is a recipe for a lot of wear, and by many accounts the AOD has an OD band that is undersized to begin with so there isn't a whole lot of wear possible before it's toast.

I drive a Lincoln and can't be bothered to feel shifts like all the hillbillies in their Fords & Mercurys. It should feel as if being whisked along the road by peasant power.

Anyway, yep, that's the general consensus. But IMO, slippage isn't as bad as stuff banging into gear. That puts undo stress on aged components that probably aren't up to the task of being banged together. Probably why the OD band in that Mark VII walked off the job. I wonder how much longer the trans would last in my truck if all I did was dump the clutch for every gear except 1st. Hey! I'd feel every shift though! If I'm going to do that, I might as well start dumping the clutch for 1st too, could qualify me for a [Hoonigan] decal to put on my rear window...

[DerekTheGreat]

Ah! Interesting to see those air injection ports with threads. Do both go through or do you only need to seal the larger one? We'll be dealing with a 351 in a truck. Went to two yards this weekend to get parts and the outlook on that project is not good, especially on the passenger side. Looks like to get the access we need we'll either have to pull the upper intake or remove the fender. Hmm.

Another note is page 7 didn't load for me when I commented earlier. Otherwise, I would've included these comments in that post. Not the first time though, anyone else having this issue with threads?

[kishy]

Ah! Interesting to see those air injection ports with threads. Do both go through or do you only need to seal the larger one? We'll be dealing with a 351 in a truck. Went to two yards this weekend to get parts and the outlook on that project is not good, especially on the passenger side. Looks like to get the access we need we'll either have to pull the upper intake or remove the fender. Hmm.

Another note is page 7 didn't load for me when I commented earlier. Otherwise, I would've included these comments in that post. Not the first time though, anyone else having this issue with threads?

I don't think the small holes go through, but I'd prefer to protect the threads from filling with goo and/or rust in case I ever need to entertain reinstalling air injection in-vehicle. I don't think that's likely to happen, but putting a bolt in the hole will make that way easier if it does. I'll check and verify when I actually put the bolts in the holes.

The multiple page thing is probably as follows, I'm guessing:

1. you click the small button beside the thread title to view the unread posts in the thread
2. you arrive at page 6 in the thread where the first unread message is located
3. you finish reading the posts on page 6, and write a reply in the reply box at the bottom, and submit it
4. after submitting the new reply, it appears on page 7 (which already existed but you didn't click on to read it before replying) and you are taken to page 7 to see what you just wrote, at which time you also notice that there was other stuff on page 7 as well.

vBulletin (the software this site runs on) does seem to encourage making this particular mistake. I've certainly done it a few times.

[Arquemann]

- to plug air injection ports: two 1/2" long bolts of 5/16-18 to plug and protect threads for holding on the air pipe -

What do you mean here? The small bolts that held the pipe to the backs of the heads? If you're thinking about what I think you're thinking about, you won't need bolts for them, they're blind holes.
For the air passages I bought 5/8" bolts, but they were too long so I had to cut one shorter. And because I was lazy I just cut a groove in the end of the cut off bit instead of cutting another bolt.
This one is nicely flush and the other has a huge bolt head sticking from the head



EDIT: whoops you just answered my question while I was writing my post

[DerekTheGreat]

I don't think the small holes go through, but I'd prefer to protect the threads from filling with goo and/or rust in case I ever need to entertain reinstalling air injection in-vehicle. I don't think that's likely to happen, but putting a bolt in the hole will make that way easier if it does. I'll check and verify when I actually put the bolts in the holes.

The multiple page thing is probably as follows, I'm guessing:

1. you click the small button beside the thread title to view the unread posts in the thread
2. you arrive at page 6 in the thread where the first unread message is located
3. you finish reading the posts on page 6, and write a reply in the reply box at the bottom, and submit it
4. after submitting the new reply, it appears on page 7 (which already existed but you didn't click on to read it before replying) and you are taken to page 7 to see what you just wrote, at which time you also notice that there was other stuff on page 7 as well.

vBulletin (the software this site runs on) does seem to encourage making this particular mistake. I've certainly done it a few times.

Yep, that's probably it with the thread. Although I could swear I got to the last post and there wasn't a "next" page, that my post showed as the most recent until I came back to the site again. Same thing with David's page. I went to check because it showed there was a new post, yet the "latest" post was from Nov. 2023, IIRC. There weren't any other pages to advance to.

I'm with you on filling the holes with something. Although from what I scouted over the weekend, I'll be lucky if I can flip the things over. Someone may have already done that with our truck, given the engine was swapped out. I haven't looked back there to see what's going on.

[87gtVIC]

Awesome work going on...and escalated quickly! You are not wasting any time though. Nice to have the area to do this type of work in.

[Tiggie]

I used a cap for 4" PVC to drive in my real seal. Perfect fit.

[kishy]

Awesome work going on...and escalated quickly! You are not wasting any time though. Nice to have the area to do this type of work in.

Half of it is the blatantly obvious ADHD shining through. The other half is that my new property and garage is very compatible with my hobby and it's so much easier when that sort of thing is working for you rather than against.

Updates without an update:
Spent a long time perusing Home Depot's hardware aisle. Learned some things:

• They do not carry 7/16" hardware, but they do carry 3/8" and 1/2".
• They do not carry 5/8" bolts, but they do carry threaded rod, flat washers, lock washers, and nuts.
• What would be known as a 5/8" bolt is, for some reason, called 3/8" when it's pipe thread instead.
• They only sell hardware beyond grade 5 in small sizes (e.g. 10-32, or small metric sizes). Want grade 8 bolts in 3/8? Go away.
• They do not carry #12 machine thread hardware. #10, 1/4", no problem. #12 of every other type of screw, no problem. But #12 machine thread, nope.
• Unrelated to Home Depot specifically, but realized while there: tapping out those hose barb fittings to #12 took out what is probably too much material, significantly weakening them. This solidified the choice to use a pipe plug, and find some other solution to plug the other one. Probably going to try to solder/braze it shut, maybe pinch the end mostly closed first so the ball of solder can't wander away if the bond breaks later. Not really crazy about that but there's only so many options here.

Went to Princess Auto, where I did find both 5/8" and 7/16" hardware.

The 5/16" holes for the air tubes are indeed blind - they don't go through to anything.
It looks like my guess of 1" for a 5/8" bolt was about right, in terms of how deep it can thread in. A 1-1/2" bolt (shortest I could find) stops with some poking out. But that's fine, if I put threadlocker on them and do them up till tight, it's fine if they poke out a little. Might look stupid but still serviceable for later if needed.



I picked up my (second set; first are on the wagon) 90 Town Car manifolds from storage. This set has not been sanded or painted, and I don't know that it would ever prove to be worth the effort. The cylinder head facing surface has been run on a belt sander to make it properly flat, and all threads have been chased, so they're basically ready to install. I'll use gaskets, and I did get new hardware for them. Now as I type this, I'm remembering that I don't have hardware to hold the cats up onto the manifolds. That whole 7/16"-not-sold-at-HD thing is maybe coming back to me now. I think that's what those bolts are.



Swapped the locknut used to attach the harness ground wire to a rear intake manifold stud for a standard nut. This always tries to back out the whole stud and I don't want to mess with a coolant leak back there just because a bolt backed out a little and the gasket seal broke.



Oh, right, coolant leaks. It looks like several of the hose connections (e.g. lower rad hose to water pump) have been leaking considerably. The white crusties all over everything seem to point to those as the main leaks. I'm cautiously optimistic that all gasketed parts are acceptably sealed. This was the first car I did all the usual work to - intake, thermostat, water pump, etc. and my experience in getting these areas to stay sealed nicely certainly wasn't what it now is. I'd still say I struggle with keeping coolant in these things, but not as much as I once did.

I also got a little carried away on RockAuto earlier. Air conditioning was completely out of scope for this project (which we can think of as "getting the car back on the road"), but when I realized how relatively cheap and available all the bits and pieces are...let's just say this might get working AC before anything else does. I do remember this car with working air and it was glorious for the 2 years that it worked.

Car received new evaporator, condenser, drier, and related seals in 1998. Compressor shows obvious evidence of leakage. Found a reman on eBay for next to nothing, so that's on the way. This uses the newer Denso compressor, not the FS-6.