kishy's 1991 Grand Marquis

[DerekTheGreat]

Awesome work going on...and escalated quickly! You are not wasting any time though. Nice to have the area to do this type of work in.

Yeah, he digs right in! Reminds me of another guy I know on here, VCV. While I'm standing around with my thumb up my ass trying theorize how to solve the problem, those two are already elbows deep in it.

Side note: Kishy's exhaust manifold bolts look similar to the ones on our truck, except those have a stack of washers for each bolt. I'm afraid to find out why...

[VicCrownVic]

I picked up my (second set; first are on the wagon) 90 Town Car manifolds from storage. This set has not been sanded or painted, and I don't know that it would ever prove to be worth the effort. The cylinder head facing surface has been run on a belt sander to make it properly flat, and all threads have been chased, so they're basically ready to install. I'll use gaskets, and I did get new hardware for them. Now as I type this, I'm remembering that I don't have hardware to hold the cats up onto the manifolds. That whole 7/16"-not-sold-at-HD thing is maybe coming back to me now. I think that's what those bolts are.

My recommendation for cat/downpipe to manifold flange studs is Dorman 03135 (or equivalent), which, you are correct, are 7/16"-14 into the manifold flange.

[kishy]

Progress for tonight is minimal:

I previously noted that I chased the threads on the 90TC manifolds. I checked, and in fact I only did that with the O2 sensor holes. I ran a tap through the holes for mounting the cats, which put up a pretty good fight, and got them nice and clean so a new bolt threads in by hand without issue. I then wrestled out the O2s from the old manifolds and put them in the new ones. They're Motorcraft parts that went on pretty recently in terms of mileage; obviously quite a while ago though.

I used a scraper to clean up the manifold mounting surfaces on the heads. I put a 3/8 tap in my drill and set the chuck to slip at its minimum setting, then ran through all the exhaust manifold holes on the heads.

I tightened down the short 5/16" air tube bolts, and put some ultra copper RTV in the threads of the big 5/8" bolts, which I then ran in until they stopped.

Photos is mostly for my own future reference about what size wrench is needed:



I pulled the old oil pan off the frame crossmember and emptied it into a drain pan. I noticed evidence of coolant in the front sump only. There was very little of it, and it was milkshaked rather than a puddle of coolant underneath the oil, and it was more or less stuck to the pan rather than freely ready to pour out. Not really sure what to make of that, however, considering that the oil is now quite old and the engine has been ran a bunch of times despite almost no mileage, I am not concerned about it at the moment. I've decided not to mess with the timing cover.

I drove in the rear main seal. I did buy a 4" PVC pipe cap, but it doesn't fit - very slightly too large which causes it to end up wrapped around the seal rather than pushing it in.
I ended up using the old seal to push the new one in, which I think is how I did it with the 2.3 as well.
I greased the backside of the seal to keep the spring in place, and greased the inside face of the seal to protect it during install. It is fully bottomed out in its bore which puts it basically flush with the outside. There's no more "in" for it to be.





I took a look at the oil pump pickup and was pleased to find nothing in the screen. I cleaned up the gasket surface on it and the pump, sprayed a new gasket with some sealant spray, then reinstalled the pickup.





Interesting that it's an F1 - or as it's stamped, FI - revision part. Anyone know what changed about it?



I used a wire brush and brake cleaner to clean the oil pan gasket surface around the bottom of the engine. I tried to mount up the new pan as a test fit but found a corner was bent, so I straightened that out as best I could, then tried again. New Fel-Pro squishy blue gasket, new 10 year old chrome oil pan, reusing the bolt tension spreader bar things that were on it with the old pan. Tightened all the bolts to something that feels about right (plan to torque it properly still), pan appears to have been pulled into shape properly.









Need to find a pack of vacuum caps, one on the tree on the firewall has disintegrated.

Yeah, he digs right in! Reminds me of another guy I know on here, VCV. While I'm standing around with my thumb up my ass trying theorize how to solve the problem, those two are already elbows deep in it.

Side note: Kishy's exhaust manifold bolts look similar to the ones on our truck, except those have a stack of washers for each bolt. I'm afraid to find out why...

A few possible reasons for the stack of washers.
If the manifolds aren't straight, using the bolts to try to pull them flat into the head surface would take a fair bit of torque, and stacking a few washers maybe with a dab of grease between them would make it easier.
Or, maybe they bought bolts that were too long and used washers to space them out. But knowing the price of washers, that's an expensive way to solve the problem.
Old bolts broken off deep in the hole would be another possibility but not for all or even many of them, I'm sure.

My recommendation for cat/downpipe to manifold flange studs is Dorman 03135 (or equivalent), which, you are correct, are 7/16"-14 into the manifold flange.

Thank you, I may have a couple packs of those in my exhaust bits tote in storage. For whatever reason I standardized on using bolts from below rather than studs for the two I've done so far, so will likely do the same here, but we'll see. I'm still a few days away from dealing with that aspect of it, I think.

[Tiggie]

My apologies for the PVC seal installer. I should have specified threaded cap like this one. Glad you got it installed.

[DerekTheGreat]

Yeah, a lot of variables there, which is why I'm afraid to find the actual answer. The 351 trucks I saw at the yards looked to have thinner bolts too. I was tempted to pull some factory hardware and then try to remove one of our bolts & see if the factory stuff would "bite." Best case scenario for me would be they lost the old hardware or didn't want to reuse it, but had all those bolts and tons of washers around. However, as my luck goes, Mr. Murphy strikes me in the head every time. Worst case scenario for me is that they drilled out and tapped the exhaust manifold bolts to something else, although I've never heard of anyone doing that.. That could also be the source of my exhaust leak, although it doesn't sound like it's leaking at the manifold(s).

I'm a little late to the party, but your oil pan looks nice. Did you sand the chrome finish away where the gasket goes? Decades ago my dad had to replace the oil pan on his Mark VII due to rust. They stabbed a chrome one on it as well, but it leaked pretty badly. I told my older, gearhead buddy about it and he said it was because of the chrome finish of the oil pan. Could be a bogus statement, but it's been in my head ever since.

[kishy]

Progress for this evening:

Vacuumed up a bunch of rusty flakes, leaves, etc from the engine bay.
Cleaned the accessible area of the inside of the bellhousing.

Found a hopefully-good-enough solution for plugging the coolant port on the metal pipe. Solder wasn't sticking and I don't know where my brazing stuff is.
I cut it fairly short, then tapped it to M6, which is entirely too large for that little tube, but since that tube is pinched within the larger tube, it seems to me it likely won't go anywhere.
I then filled all the threads on an M6 bolt with RTV, and threaded it in until snug.
This also doubles as a flow restrictor for the heater core, which is generally considered a good thing to do.







I put the back plate on the engine, then the flexplate, and torqued the bolts. I put RTV in some of the threads and threadlocker in some others, further outboard. My hope is that this will prevent the leak that is known to happen when no sealant is used. Seems to me that it should, unless the two chemicals are incompatible and somehow enable an even worse leak.



The oil pan is torqued all the way around. One outstanding consideration is the hole for the oil level switch. I got the connector apart on the one I have (a nearly invisible retaining clip lives in there), and there was oil inside it. Seems fair to assume it leaks in a way that it shouldn't, so I've bought a NOS one on eBay. They also have a special washer, but I'll just use RTV. I will also try to source a simple bolt or plug to go there instead, but it's a large hole with a fine thread and I'm not optimistic I can get that locally, hence buying the NOS one, so at least I know a solution is on its way.



I also revisited the steering rag joint, reversing my bolts so I could install the outer plastic shield thing. In doing so, I had to cut one bolt short so it's only single-nutted, and only put one nut on the other also due to clearance, but was able to leave the rest of the bolt length so at least there's more resistance to the nut falling off if it does back off.

My apologies for the PVC seal installer. I should have specified threaded cap like this one. Glad you got it installed.

Ahhhh that'd do it.
I kept my receipt, we'll see if HD will take back the piece I bought. 5 bucks is worth it and I can always find some other reason to be there, or near there.

Yeah, a lot of variables there, which is why I'm afraid to find the actual answer. The 351 trucks I saw at the yards looked to have thinner bolts too. I was tempted to pull some factory hardware and then try to remove one of our bolts & see if the factory stuff would "bite." Best case scenario for me would be they lost the old hardware or didn't want to reuse it, but had all those bolts and tons of washers around. However, as my luck goes, Mr. Murphy strikes me in the head every time. Worst case scenario for me is that they drilled out and tapped the exhaust manifold bolts to something else, although I've never heard of anyone doing that.. That could also be the source of my exhaust leak, although it doesn't sound like it's leaking at the manifold(s).

I'm a little late to the party, but your oil pan looks nice. Did you sand the chrome finish away where the gasket goes? Decades ago my dad had to replace the oil pan on his Mark VII due to rust. They stabbed a chrome one on it as well, but it leaked pretty badly. I told my older, gearhead buddy about it and he said it was because of the chrome finish of the oil pan. Could be a bogus statement, but it's been in my head ever since.

I did nothing to the chrome finish and I hope I won't regret that. I'm using a Fel-Pro PermaDryPlus gasket which should seal pretty well on even a fairly compromised surface, so a nice smooth finish should be no issue for it - I hope.

Not technically too late to revisit that but I'd prefer not to.

a quick google search does seem to agree with this being a problem though, so maybe I'll pull it off and scuff it up a bit. I absolutely can't wrap my head around why it wouldn't seal but I don't want it to leak there either.

[DerekTheGreat]

...I did nothing to the chrome finish and I hope I won't regret that. I'm using a Fel-Pro PermaDryPlus gasket which should seal pretty well on even a fairly compromised surface, so a nice smooth finish should be no issue for it - I hope.

Not technically too late to revisit that but I'd prefer not to.

a quick google search does seem to agree with this being a problem though, so maybe I'll pull it off and scuff it up a bit. I absolutely can't wrap my head around why it wouldn't seal but I don't want it to leak there either.

Ah, so there is traction to what I was told. That's a bummer. I forget why I was under dad's car (Perhaps to find the leak, dad hates cars that leak), but I do remember noticing the oil pan and how it was covered in oily grime, like someone sprayed it with Fluid Film, in addition to what looked like streamers of oil running down it. In short, it was a bad leak. Seeing as you had to remove the engine to do the gasket, it might be worth the peace of mind to take the pan back off and scuff that surface up.

[87gtVIC]

Did you not want to weld the coolant nipple shut? I did that on my car and it worked fine.

I can understand the fear of compromising the O ring but I dont think the heat of the weld would bother it any. Doubt the heat would travel that far down and be greater than the heat of an engine.

[kishy]

Took the pan off. Sanded off the finish on the mating surfaces. Flushed thoroughly with brake cleaner and wiped with two different paper towels, bolted it back on, torqued the bolts.

Measured the hole for the oil level switch. Looks like it's M20x1.5. Not a particularly available bolt, but as soon as you call it an oil drain plug, it's pretty available. Example, Dorman 090-040. Will try to put my hands on one of those tomorrow.

Might or might not wander back out there and mess around with it more, but I was wearing nicerish clothes so I didn't want to crawl around under the car. There's no real reason I couldn't drop it in tonight otherwise, since the oil level hole is perfectly accessible from below.

Did you not want to weld the coolant nipple shut? I did that on my car and it worked fine.

I can understand the fear of compromising the O ring but I dont think the heat of the weld would bother it any. Doubt the heat would travel that far down and be greater than the heat of an engine.

Welding is not a skill that I would say I have at this time.
Tools, yes, skill, no, and everything I know on the subject says thin metal such as tubing is a hard job to do without destroying the workpiece when you don't know what you're doing

There is no o-ring on this pipe design, that's only the 86(?) design dual pipe setup if I recall correctly. This is a simple pipe fed by a rubber hose from the water pump. A simple rubber hose could replace the whole thing, realistically, and would actually make the coolant hose a fair bit more serviceable without removing the upper intake.

[DerekTheGreat]

Took the pan off. Sanded off the finish on the mating surfaces. Flushed thoroughly with brake cleaner and wiped with two different paper towels, bolted it back on, torqued the bolts...

[gadget73]

Have to use acid flux when soldering steel. Rosin or plumbing flux won't get it done.

[Kodachrome Wolf]

I thought the heater core feed was the fully rubber hose that starts after the ECT and the pipe was on the return. I've always ran a restrictor on the feed side (or what I may be wrongly assuming is the feed now), unfortunately started doing that a little too late and still ballooned my first heater core.

The heater pipe block-offs are a pretty cool solution to eliminating the ports to the EGR cooler. On my car and Nick's '89, I ditched the pipe entirely and ran bulk 3/4" heater hose from the water pump to the heater core and routed the hose similar to the '79-'85 cars.


Engine cleanup and reseal job is looking good!

[Arquemann]

I ditched the pipe entirely and ran bulk 3/4" heater hose from the water pump to the heater core and routed the hose similar to the '79-'85 cars.

And here I'm thinking about getting a foxbody heater pipe to get rid of the bulky heater hoses laying on the valve cover... The duality of man.

[gadget73]

The 1986 heater pipe setup is very similar to the Fox one. Not quite identical bends in the pipe but same double tube arrangement.

[kishy]

Status as of this evening:
I did get an M20x1.5 drain plug and it seems to have adequately solved the problem of the hole in the side of the pan.

The engine is back in, and bolted to the bellhousing and the mounts. The torque converter and flexplate are attached, taking care to keep the converter drain plug accessible. The engine bars over by hand smoothly. The engine crane is folded up and out of the way now. For reference, this is the space I was crawling into and out of to get things apart and then together again:





Fuel line quick-connects have been cleaned, silicone grease applied to the o-rings, and clicked back together.

Y-pipe has been removed. It's scrap. I have some options for how to proceed but immediate-term, it's just going to be open cats. Likely will be quieter without the rusted-off Y-pipe making obnoxious exhaust leak noises.

Cats have had the air tube removed and holes plugged with 5/8 bolts. Indeed, they just sorta thread in, thanks to the pinched spot where the clamp was. High-temp RTV in addition to that should keep exhaust leaks minimized. Y-pipe flanges have been removed from the cat flanges. The cats are ready to install. They look reasonably clear from what can be seen looking in the pipe, but obviously the honeycomb could be melted or plugged internally. I guess we'll see.







Next up, installing the starter, the exhaust manifolds, the flexplate inspection cover, than hang the cats off the manifolds. Then all the "top side" stuff - hoses, wiring, cowl stuff, upper intake, cooling system.

And of course, engine oil, before hooking the start circuit up again.

Depending on my motivation levels and productivity tomorrow, it might be a running driving car again by Monday, which is sort of my hope. My intent at present is to use this car for my road trip in May. But I need enough seat time in it before that to trust it to be up to the task. And if that doesn't work out, I know the wagon will do it. I just want to change it up a little; if the Tail of the Dragon trip will be yearly (looks like it), I want to drive each of my cars there.

In a bit of a different vein, I found NOS floormats for a 90s Grand Marquis in burgundy. It's a different red than this car's interior, but it doesn't look horrendous. They fit the floor pan well, but not perfectly. 2 more pairs available at this time. https://www.ebay.com/itm/304990931358